Hoklo on Luzon (Philippines Hokkien), reports from the field

[Ah-bin]

O'tng was probably in the vocab till some point in the 20th cen.

I thought Taiwanese used Chu-pâng 書房 （or was it su-pâng?) for those traditional Chinese schools before the Japanese introduced the concept of gakkou 學校 (schools based on western educational systems). The 書房 were banned in Taiwan in 1930, I believe.

[siamiwako]

I've heard Chavacano referred to as a dialect too. A dialect of what? The Pinoy English word "dialect" doesn't seem to imply there being a language attached to it.

I would have thought dialect is a spoken language from a region in lesser number against the general population. I'm not a linguist myself hence, I could be politically incorrect here.

I've heard of Chavacano from Luzon with Tagalog influence but I've never came across one myself, so I might end up probably saying ZC Chavacano is a dialect of ZC province (?)

It's cool that Siamiwako's "priority language" was Hoklo even when he was in high school, with all the pressures that go with that (high school).

To be honest, the way we were taught Chinese in school is a bit different, it's a mix of Mandarin and Hokkien. We read texts, memorise sentences and shortened literature (唐詩 - 絕句 or extracted four lines from 律詩). But discussions will be in colloquial Hokkien, just like everyday conversation. Strange isn't it? All I can say is that we were encouraged to speak Hokkien inside school campus back then.

[siamiwako]

Have U heard Cebu Hoklo? Would U say that it sounds different?

Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to speak to someone who's a local from Cebu or from any Visayas region.

Interesting theory on intsik. Could it be related to Malay encik, meaning SIR (moderately respectful)?

I believe it may not be realted to Malay encik at all. The word intsik in Philippines refers to people from Chinese background, including those born and raised in Philippines.

Would love to hear Zamboanga Hoklo sometime, complete with its loanwords from Bisaya, Spanish, etc.

I guess you may need to travel down south next time but it's a bit dodgy and I don't recommend you doing this.

[haroldmanila]

when I was at my teens, my aunts who lives in Bacolod went here in Manila. I would hear them talk in Bacolod mix with hokkien. Their dominant accent is Bacolod which is I think is a subdialect of Bisaya.


Accents:

Bisaya is the language majority of Bisayan speaks like in Cebu. But like the Chinese Language they have their variations. Like hokkien, cantonese, mandarin, etc.

Cebu, Leyte, Davao, Cagayan de Oro - the “normal” bisaya, when angry it shows, when happy it also shows. Their language is called “cebuano”

Bacolod, Iloilo - the “romantic” bisaya, subdialect, means no matter how angry and shouting the person is, you will still hear the softness of his/her anger.

Waray - the “angry” bisaya, subdialect, When they talk you would assume that they are angry but in truth that is their normal way of talking.

Surigao - the “romantic” cebuano language. Like the Iloilo accent but with cebuano language.

Bohol - the “hard” bisaya, subdialect, They pronounce the words in a hard accent.


These are just some of the Bisayas. My wife is from Leyte, speaking cebuano bisaya.


The “intsik” here as I remember on TV explaning the origin was from the word “a chiak” or “a chek” it is “uncle” in English, in Hokkien, it is the younger brother of my father. And through the years it evolved into “intsik” since Filipinos back then can’t pronounce hokkien. The spokeperson of the Chinese community of Manila in Chinatown Ms. Teresita Ang See said lets us not use the word “intsik”, maybe, first, it is hard to pronounce, second it is in pure form Chinese. So, she suggested using “chinoy” a coined word from “chinese” and “pinoy”. It is from the two race that will show cooperation and harmony.

I remember when I was a kid, Filipino children would chant
“intsik bejo, tulo laway”

“intsik” - means Chinese
“bejo” - be-hu - horse’s powder or horse droppings. A person’s level or status is only
animal droppings.
“tulo” - tagalog for dripping
“laway” - tagalog word for saliva. A deeper meaning would probably mean poor or no
money person.

Hence, “ Chinese are horse’s droppings, dripping saliva”

The history of “horse’s dropping” is probably when in the old days Chinese are operators of “calesa” Spanish for horsedrawn carriage. And their horse would drop droppings anywhere in Binondo. Then the droppings would dry up and be blown all over the streets of binondo. Now “calesas” are still in use, but the operators are now Filipinos.

[amhoanna]

Harold,

Thanks for the descriptions of the Bisaya from different places! These kind of impressions are hard to come by out here in the "outside" world.

I went down to Dadiangas once. I think both Ilonggo (Bacolod/Iloilo) and Cebuano are spoken there. I got a kick out of how people would talk to me in one Pinoy language, then switch to another Pinoy language when they realized I wasn't understanding them. The first was probably Ilonggo or Cebuano, the second probably Tagalog? A few hundred yrs ago, I could've probably gotten around Dadiangas speaking Malay.

Siamiwako,

I was in Zamboanga once for a few days. I tried speaking Hoklo a couple of times with people who looked Hoklo. They didn't reply in Hoklo, but at least one of those times, nearby the Tionghoa school, I got the feeling that they understood me well enough.

I've heard that the CITY of Zamboanga isn't as dangerous as people give it credit for, but parts of the countryside are no-go.

What's going on in Mindanao is a shame. If Rizal was alive today, I doubt he would approve of what the central gov't has done on Mindanao. Unfort. the media everywhere tends to take the Moros to task.

I met some Tausugs in Sandakan. I was told that there were a lot of Hokkiens on Jolo--that they got along really well with the Tausug. I met some Tausug kids who studied political science (!) on Isabela (!). They asked to see some Taiwanese money, so I showed them a TWD 100 bill. One kid studied it for a long time. I would love to have known what he was thinking. I have my guess, though.

But discussions will be in colloquial Hokkien, just like everyday conversation. Strange isn't it? All I can say is that we were encouraged to speak Hokkien inside school campus back then.

Wow!! Cool. And if I'm not mistaken, this wasn't really that far back?

...

An article on "intsik" and other terms, on the coolest-looking oldschool blog I've ever seen:
http://pinoykasi.homestead.com/files/20 ... angley.htm

Maybe both INTSIK and ENCIK come from Hoklo? My "spidey sense" says the two words were probably related at some pt in the past.

[haroldmanila]

I feel that the accent of hoklo is influenced by the different bisaya places. So that if you are talking to an Ilonggo (Iloilo) you would hear his hoklo in Ilonggo tone.

here are some references I gathered from the net regarding the usage of chinese taglish in the philippines. If you guys have time.

Videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfQMdQnh ... re=related - Filipino and Chinese culture


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD4nL97C ... re=related - Chinese Migration into the Philippines-The Story of a Businessman from Hong Kong


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKi29ZkR ... re=related - Big Binondo Food Wok: Mango Tours in Balitang America



Threads : one page only.

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/arc ... 7-p-3.html - Filipino - Chinese students talking about their schools.

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/arc ... 89889.html - Filipino - Chinese students talking about their cultural differences.


presently I am finalizing recordings of hoklo with tagalog and english or chinese taglish to be uploaded in youtube. recordings of everyday conversations here in manila from hua-kiaws. you would hear tagalized chinese and tagalized english.

[xr]

Bantay* - Really (e.g. Ke kh'a bantay kui 價錢真貴)

It is a Min Nan word that I am sure is used at 晋江. I think the Chinese character would be 滿太. I do not know if this is used elsewhere.

I am a Chinoy.

[amhoanna]

Thanks everybody for your toilet paper comments on the Visayas thread.

In another example of Hokkien at work, yesterday in an industrial section of Pasay I saw a bakery or eatery called Mimipan 美味香 -- Bíbīphang.

Another interesting story. I was at a beauty salon in Metro Manila dengan seorang teman and for a good while a couple of the stylists / siociá there and temanku were talking about me in Tagalog. Now aku nggak bisa bicara bahasa itu, tapi for some reason I always feel like I'm on the edge of understanding. Now at 1 pt they used a word KURIPOT and threw in a mention of "Ilokano" and instinctively I knew they were speculating that I might be stingy (by Pinoy standards), since both the Chinese and the Ilokano (of Ilokos, on the China side of northern Luzon) have a reputation in the islands for being stingy / thrifty. I jumped in the conversation here and turns out that's exactly what they were talking about. ...

I think money -- using it, sharing it, lending it -- has been one of, if not THE, flashpoint in Hoklo - Pinoy relations over the years. It's so "nice" to have the Ilokanos in there as a change-up, though -- Pinoys with the same kind of money sense as Tnglang. They are a natural buffer.

Címmá íkeng tuíⁿlải Sãigòng ·a, toà cia KURIPOT tọ kài cèngsiỏng, bián kiaⁿ pháiⁿsè.

[siamiwako]

Címmá íkeng tuíⁿlải Sãigòng ·a, toà cia KURIPOT tọ kài cèngsiỏng, bián kiaⁿ pháiⁿsè.

現在已經？？？這裡小氣必要正常（？），別怕不好意思。

Pretty bad, talking behind someone else's back.

[SimL]

I think "tuíⁿlải" is 回來, and I'd guess from the context that "Sãigòng" is 西貢.

Sadly "cèngsiỏng" is one of the "educated words" which I didn't know in Hokkien (well, the positive side is I know it now). Before that, I would have said "nO2-mə2" (if in a rough part of Penang, and "nO2-məl2" in a less rough part of Penang). But I'm glad to know the "proper" Hokkien word .