Vietnamese is sino-tibetan Part 2

[qrasy]

[trial]
a [a^] [a(] i y u [u'] o [o'] [o^] e [e^] (not in Vietnamese order)
境 c[a?]nh 襖 áo
寅d[a^`]n 午ng[o.] 未mùi 子tý 酉d[a^.]u 丙bính 戊m[a^.]u 癸qúi

[qrasy]

Those were the "Vietnamese vowels", the "examples of non-MC standard Sino-Viet Reading" and the "Heaven stems/earth branchs that preserves pre-MC reading.

[AlexNg]

I came across this site and it says vietnamese is part of the tai languages which belongs to sino-tibetan language family. Wonder why he said that?

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?met ... tab=2222_1

[AlexNg]

Another site which imply vietnamese is sino-tibetan


http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0845365.html

It also lists down the common features of sino-tibetan which match
vietnamese.

[Dylan Sung]

I came across this site and it says vietnamese is part of the tai languages which belongs to sino-tibetan language family. Wonder why he said that?

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?met ... tab=2222_1

How did you interprete

"this site and it says vietnamese is part of the tai languages"

in your comment above, from

"possibly the Vietnamese tongue of Vietnam"

mentioned on the site in your link in the section on Tai languages?

For the site's uncertainty to your statement of certainty seems to me your wishful thinking at making the link as solid as possible is obscuring your objectivity.

And the contents of the second link you've provided are exactly the same as the one before it. At least you've realised it 'implies' rather than stating unequivocally that there is any link between Vietnamese and Sino Tibetan, despite the 'possibly' mentioned.

It still does not explain why adjectives in Vietnamese occur after the noun it describes, contrary to Sino-Tibetan languages, for instance. Such a basic feature of grammar is not borrowed, and this poses one of the big obstacles for you to demonstrate the linkage.

Dyl.

[AlexNg]

If the adjectives comes after the noun doesn't imply that it belongs to another language family.

Take for example, the latin languages such as french, the adjectives is after the noun but it still belongs to the same language family ie. indo-european as the germanic languages such as english which has the adjectives before the noun.

We must look at the common characteristics of the language family eg.
tonal, mono-syllabic etc that I listed out in part 1 and is listed out in the new url in this thread.

In tai languages, the adjectives is after the noun, I guess that is why vietnamese is placed under this subgroup.

[Guest]

If the adjectives comes after the noun doesn't imply that it belongs to another language family.

Take for example, the latin languages such as french, the adjectives is after the noun but it still belongs to the same language family ie. indo-european as the germanic languages such as english which has the adjectives before the noun.

We must look at the common characteristics of the language family eg.
tonal, mono-syllabic etc that I listed out in part 1 and is listed out in the new url in this thread.

In tai languages, the adjectives is after the noun, I guess that is why vietnamese is placed under this subgroup.

Latin, French, or German is irrelevant, since they are all languages which has verb conjugation - something which Chinese doesn't have, and Latin and German has noun declensions, again something Chinese doesn't have. In latin, the adjectives also change - something that Chinese doesn't do.

Common characteristics only go so far. It is the exceptions which help determine if there are reasons why Vietnamese and Chinese should be classified as having separate ancestral and linguistical heritages, before they came into contact. And the links given earlier in the first thread I provided are reason why more modern linguists do not believe Vietnamese is a Thai relative.

You should re-examine the way you interpret "possibly" in the original article to which you use the word "imply" and then to your interpretation that Vietnamese is a Tai language.

I can only say it is wishful thinking on your part to equate what was in the article to your final conclusion.

[AlexNg]

Your argument is irrelevant. I never said that latin and germanic languages belong to sino-tibetan language family, did I ? I did say that germanic and latin languages fall under the indo-european language family

Somebody was arguing that if the adjectives come after the noun, it cannot be under the same family tree !

That is why I quoted that latin language such as french which has the adjectives after the noun do belong to the same family tree as english !

Anyway, tai language has the adjectives after the noun, and some linguist do place it under the same family tree due to their common characteristics.

[ongtk]

Thai people came very late(around 5th-9th centuries ) from yunnan to the place there stayed now.That place is belonged to Mon people .So we can say maybe mon language has some words share with vietnam rather than tai language.
There are no less than 5 millions Mon people now in Thailand and myanmar.

[qrasy]

Thai people came very late(around 5th-9th centuries ) from yunnan to the place there stayed now.That place is belonged to Mon people .So we can say maybe mon language has some words share with vietnam rather than tai language.
There are no less than 5 millions Mon people now in Thailand and myanmar.

What are you going to say? If You say "Thai" it's around 12 (I'm not really sure about this. "Tai" refers to different group from Thai. Does "maybe mon language has some words share with vietnam rather than tai language." mean that "it's the contact relationship that make Vietnamese share some word with Mon rather than does Tai."?