Helmut,
Can you please tell me what romanisation scheme the Betty Hung "Phrases in Cantonese" book uses? (I am trying to standardise on Yale during my beginner phase).
Would you suggest that a smaller dictionary is generally better for a beginner? Why, because there are less pages and guff to search through? Don’t you find it frustrating though when a word isn’t there.
Yesterday I ordered:
* Cantonese: A Comprehensive Grammar by Matthews/Yip ISBN:041508945X
* Chinese-English Dictionary: Cantonese in Yale Romanization, Mandarin in Pinyin ISBN:9622019226
* English-Cantonese Dictionary: Cantonese in Yale Romanization ISBN: 9622019706
I am considering swapping the E-C dictionary above for the "Phrases in Cantonese" book you mentioned - I like the fact that it includes characters. Apart from this feature (and it’s price) is there any other reason why it might be preferred to the English-Cantonese Dictionary?
Regards,
rathpy
Cantonese Dictionary
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Rathpy,
positive. All books of Betty Hung and also of Matthews/Yip that I know use Yale.
No ! I would not say that a smaller dictionary is generally better for a beginner. It is not a matter of size. But here, the small book offers some things that the big book lacks:
1. The E-C dictionary that we talk about would give you several Cantonese meanings for one English word. It would not tell you that one is normally used, the next one rarely used and the third one only in formal writing. So you end up not knowing which of the proposed words is the one that you should apply. Betty Hung gives you only one solution, and usually the one that matters.
2. Not having the Chinese characters makes it also much more difficult to show the word to a native speaker and ask him, because native speakers usually cannot read romanisation. But as a beginner you often need to ask. BH gives you the chars.
3. BH often gives you the classifier, the E-C dictionary does not. This is like a French dictionary not telling you male or female.
Of course, after some time, 4000 words are not enough for a dictionary, but for a start it should be ok.
Why do you want to swap ? Buy them all ! Once past the beginner stage, it is useful to have them both anyway, one as a dictionary, the other as a vocabulary trainer.
Betty Hung's book costs only about HK$ 60-70. Compared with the value of your time spent on learning, this is worth it. There are Cantonese beginner courses in the US that cost you hundreds of US dollars, but this book is really cheap. I bought not only this, but also "The right word in Cantonese" by Kwan Choi Wah, which is the same type of book as "Phrases in Cantonese" (no classifiers though). The vocabulary does not overlap 100%, so I simply got both.
Another suggestion: "Basic Cantonese" by Matthews/Yip. It is a grammar oriented exercise book. To be used best after the beginners course. What I like most about the books of these authors is that they seem to use modern vocabulary. Some books teach you vocabulary that native speakers will tell you is outdated.
Helmut
positive. All books of Betty Hung and also of Matthews/Yip that I know use Yale.
No ! I would not say that a smaller dictionary is generally better for a beginner. It is not a matter of size. But here, the small book offers some things that the big book lacks:
1. The E-C dictionary that we talk about would give you several Cantonese meanings for one English word. It would not tell you that one is normally used, the next one rarely used and the third one only in formal writing. So you end up not knowing which of the proposed words is the one that you should apply. Betty Hung gives you only one solution, and usually the one that matters.
2. Not having the Chinese characters makes it also much more difficult to show the word to a native speaker and ask him, because native speakers usually cannot read romanisation. But as a beginner you often need to ask. BH gives you the chars.
3. BH often gives you the classifier, the E-C dictionary does not. This is like a French dictionary not telling you male or female.
Of course, after some time, 4000 words are not enough for a dictionary, but for a start it should be ok.
Why do you want to swap ? Buy them all ! Once past the beginner stage, it is useful to have them both anyway, one as a dictionary, the other as a vocabulary trainer.
Betty Hung's book costs only about HK$ 60-70. Compared with the value of your time spent on learning, this is worth it. There are Cantonese beginner courses in the US that cost you hundreds of US dollars, but this book is really cheap. I bought not only this, but also "The right word in Cantonese" by Kwan Choi Wah, which is the same type of book as "Phrases in Cantonese" (no classifiers though). The vocabulary does not overlap 100%, so I simply got both.
Another suggestion: "Basic Cantonese" by Matthews/Yip. It is a grammar oriented exercise book. To be used best after the beginners course. What I like most about the books of these authors is that they seem to use modern vocabulary. Some books teach you vocabulary that native speakers will tell you is outdated.
Helmut
-
rathpy
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Okay then Helmut,
I added "Phrases in Cantonese" to my order. And I'll consider the others after I receive the order of four books.
Thanks,
rathpy
I added "Phrases in Cantonese" to my order. And I'll consider the others after I receive the order of four books.
Thanks,
rathpy
-
Paul
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Rathpy,
When I started to learn Cantonese(many many years ago now) I went to an evening class and the teacher used the SPEAK CANTONESE course by Parker Huang. This consists of 3 books quite comprehensive giving a wide coverage of the language it uses YALE Romanization, each lesson had a vocabulary section with both Yale and chinese characters. There was also an accompanying dictionary.(Idon't know if its still in print) I have since progressed onto most of the dictionaries mentioned in other postings.
You can maybe try to locate this language course I'm not sure if there are any accompanying tapes(?)
On the subject of your other posting my wife is from Hong Kong, We have brought our 2 daughters up to be fluent in English and Cantonese. Irrespective of what language we used with each other,we stuck to speaking our own languages to our children from day1. My wife being at home all day with our daughter was unsure wether our daughter could understand English or not(?) an incident happened with our eldest daughter (she tripped over and hit her head)she told my wife in perfect Cantonese and then when I returned home promptly told me in perfect English what had happened. Thus we knew that she had no problems mixing up languages. We did notice that she sometimes knew the word for something in 1 language and not in the other, so an English sentence would suddenly have a Cantonese word inserted in and visa versa.
Carry on the good work with the Cantonese it's a fantastically vibrant language, and well worth learning
Cheers Paul
When I started to learn Cantonese(many many years ago now) I went to an evening class and the teacher used the SPEAK CANTONESE course by Parker Huang. This consists of 3 books quite comprehensive giving a wide coverage of the language it uses YALE Romanization, each lesson had a vocabulary section with both Yale and chinese characters. There was also an accompanying dictionary.(Idon't know if its still in print) I have since progressed onto most of the dictionaries mentioned in other postings.
You can maybe try to locate this language course I'm not sure if there are any accompanying tapes(?)
On the subject of your other posting my wife is from Hong Kong, We have brought our 2 daughters up to be fluent in English and Cantonese. Irrespective of what language we used with each other,we stuck to speaking our own languages to our children from day1. My wife being at home all day with our daughter was unsure wether our daughter could understand English or not(?) an incident happened with our eldest daughter (she tripped over and hit her head)she told my wife in perfect Cantonese and then when I returned home promptly told me in perfect English what had happened. Thus we knew that she had no problems mixing up languages. We did notice that she sometimes knew the word for something in 1 language and not in the other, so an English sentence would suddenly have a Cantonese word inserted in and visa versa.
Carry on the good work with the Cantonese it's a fantastically vibrant language, and well worth learning
Cheers Paul
-
Miles Crew
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Man, I'm still skeptical that anything perfect is out there. Good resources are so scant that a true colloquial Cantonese expression and the accompanying characters are treasures to be horded and only doled out to fellow learners for more words and phrases in return.
That said, anyone know where to get the Betty Hung book? I can't find it on Amazon, or anything else decent-looking that I don't already have for that matter.
That said, anyone know where to get the Betty Hung book? I can't find it on Amazon, or anything else decent-looking that I don't already have for that matter.
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
"Phrases in Cantonese" can be found like all good books in appropriate Hongkong book stores, if it hasn't been sold out already.
If this is not an option, it is also offered on Amazon, but not on every Amazon. Amazon.co.uk does offer it. Btw. the page comes with a book review of mine telling one of the reasons why also this book is far from perfect. If Amazon is not an option either, you may get the ISBN from the Amazon page and order it through your local book store.
If this is not an option, it is also offered on Amazon, but not on every Amazon. Amazon.co.uk does offer it. Btw. the page comes with a book review of mine telling one of the reasons why also this book is far from perfect. If Amazon is not an option either, you may get the ISBN from the Amazon page and order it through your local book store.
-
Miles Crew
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Thanks Helmut, I think this sounds like the book for me despite its drawbacks. Vocabulary choice is less important to me than just including characters (I can't believe how often these are ignored; I can't imagine learning Chinese without characters) and classifiers is good enough for me. And anyway, food words are pretty important. It took me quite a bit of poring over snatched takeout menus to be able to reliably order something good to eat at any noodle, roast meat, and congee shop.
Has anyone tried the new "Dictionary of Cantonese Slang," apparently just out in June? This sounds like the Holy Grail to me.
Also, while we're on the topic of learning resources, I found a book/tape set in HK published by Greenwood Press by Cream Lee called "Current Cantonese Colloquialisms." It isn't a reference book, and as the cover says it is pretty advanced, but it has a LOT of phrases- with colloquial written forms and traditional equivalents- that you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere else.
Has anyone tried the new "Dictionary of Cantonese Slang," apparently just out in June? This sounds like the Holy Grail to me.
Also, while we're on the topic of learning resources, I found a book/tape set in HK published by Greenwood Press by Cream Lee called "Current Cantonese Colloquialisms." It isn't a reference book, and as the cover says it is pretty advanced, but it has a LOT of phrases- with colloquial written forms and traditional equivalents- that you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere else.
-
rathpy
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Miles Crew said:
<< That said, anyone know where to get the Betty Hung book? I can't find it on Amazon, or anything else decent-looking that I don't already have for that matter. >>
"Phrases in Cantonese" by Betty Hung - see http://www.chinabooks.com.au/currentstock/lndia_1.htm
- approximately US$15 + postage from Australia
Regards,
rathpy
<< That said, anyone know where to get the Betty Hung book? I can't find it on Amazon, or anything else decent-looking that I don't already have for that matter. >>
"Phrases in Cantonese" by Betty Hung - see http://www.chinabooks.com.au/currentstock/lndia_1.htm
- approximately US$15 + postage from Australia
Regards,
rathpy
-
Miles Crew
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
Thanks, rathpy.
About this new "Dictionary of Cantonese Slang"... I haven't found it at any bookseller's site, but you can order it from the publisher at http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/ However, it is very expensive! Still, if it is what it says it is, I will fork over the money for it. I have sent an e-mail to one of the authors asking him to clarify a couple issues before I make my decision, though. If it turns out to be the best book ever I will certainly let people know. I just hope it doesn't focus TOO much on 粗口。
About this new "Dictionary of Cantonese Slang"... I haven't found it at any bookseller's site, but you can order it from the publisher at http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/ However, it is very expensive! Still, if it is what it says it is, I will fork over the money for it. I have sent an e-mail to one of the authors asking him to clarify a couple issues before I make my decision, though. If it turns out to be the best book ever I will certainly let people know. I just hope it doesn't focus TOO much on 粗口。
-
Tom
Re: Cantonese Dictionary
the best C-E dictionary I ever saw, is :
Sidney Lau : A practical C-E dictionary.
it is HUGE, 1000 pages, and it costs around HK $ 280, which is not expensive for that size.
I got mine in HK, you have to look around to get it, but many bookstores
carry it.
Sidney Lau : A practical C-E dictionary.
it is HUGE, 1000 pages, and it costs around HK $ 280, which is not expensive for that size.
I got mine in HK, you have to look around to get it, but many bookstores
carry it.