Demonstrative Pronouns Singular and Plural

[amhoanna]

Niuc, I've yet to come across any kind of Hoklo that didn't like contractions. Besides "toài" 倒來, which I'm not sure about, all the other contractions U mentioned are used in TW. Unstressed "--loai" is probably heard five or ten times more often than unstressed "--lo̍hlâi". Give a man a quid of betel and watch his Hoklo turn into just one big contraction.

Siamiwako, interesting: tsuai and huai. What tones do U have on those? And where're U from, or where's your Hokkien from? I'm guessing the Phils?

Taiwanese Hoklo is mostly a mix of different kinds of Hoklo from around Bânlâm 閩南 / Southern Hokkian. There were plenty of Teochew settlers in middle and southern Taiwan. There's even a town called Teochew. So there's probably traces of Teochew in Taiwanese Hoklo. But there's pretty much no Hakka in TW Hoklo except maybe in places with a Hakka majority.

[siamiwako]

Niuc, I've yet to come across any kind of Hoklo that didn't like contractions. Besides "toài" 倒來, which I'm not sure about, all the other contractions U mentioned are used in TW. Unstressed "--loai" is probably heard five or ten times more often than unstressed "--lo̍hlâi". Give a man a quid of betel and watch his Hoklo turn into just one big contraction.

Siamiwako, interesting: tsuai and huai. What tones do U have on those? And where're U from, or where's your Hokkien from? I'm guessing the Phils?

Taiwanese Hoklo is mostly a mix of different kinds of Hoklo from around Bânlâm 閩南 / Southern Hokkian. There were plenty of Teochew settlers in middle and southern Taiwan. There's even a town called Teochew. So there's probably traces of Teochew in Taiwanese Hoklo. But there's pretty much no Hakka in TW Hoklo except maybe in places with a Hakka majority.

Yes I'm from Phils. I sometimes contract m-tang (don't) to mang, chi-e (as in tan chi-e - wait for a while) to che. But I don't say mai as in "m-ai - don't". I guess my hokkien is Quanzhou accent.

[amhoanna]

Are you from Metro Manila? I think Manila Hokkien is very Coânciu, with roots in Cìnkang 晉江. Do they say mài elsewhere in the Philippines?

[siamiwako]

Are you from Metro Manila? I think Manila Hokkien is very Coânciu, with roots in Cìnkang 晉江. Do they say mài elsewhere in the Philippines?

Yes my ancestrl root is from Jinjiang.
I'm not from Metro Manila, I'm from Sydney.

[SimL]

Hi Ah-bin and Andrew,

This is just to support the initial statements made by both of you about "this/these" and "that/those", i.e. the first two postings on this thread.

You're analysis fits almost exactly how I would say it, Ah-bin, except that I wouldn't make any distinction between the "e" classifier and all the others. For me, "ci(t-l)e" and "hi(t-l)e" get almost always elided to "ce" and "he" anyway, so:


ce-hua1 : this flower, these flowers
ce-kiu5 : this ball, these balls
ce-lang5 : this person, these people

where, without specific qualification, it could be either singular or plural.


ci-lui-hua1 : this flower
ci-liap-kiu5 : this ball
ci-(l)e-lang : this person

where the adding of the measure word - and the clearer articulation of an "-i-" in "ci" - makes it definitely singular.


ce kui-lui hua1 : these flowers
ce kui-liap kiu5 : these balls
ce kui-e lang5 : these people

where the adding of the "kui-" to the measure word - and the lack of the "-i-" in "ce"- makes it definitely plural.

Substituting "h-" for "c-" will then give exactly the same paradigms for "that" vs. "those".

[But I daresay this would be considered by many to be a "very slovenly" way of speaking.]

[amhoanna]

[But I daresay this would be considered by many to be a "very slovenly" way of speaking.]

There's something real familiar about the system U described, Sim. I think people talk this way in TW too. "Ce/he" (T1, always citation) is used just like in your first set of examples. For the second set, TWese would have "cit/hit". For the third set, I think it's either "cit/hit" or unchecked "cí/hí" -- speaker's choice -- w/ the caveat that this set-up can only be used for small numbers of a thing, class, etc. "Slovenly" ce/he might not come w/ this restriction...

Again, just going off impressions.

I'm not from Metro Manila, I'm from Sydney.

I'm sure there's lots of people that live in Sydney and speak 3+ languages. But somebody from Sydney speaking 3+ languages? Wild!

[Ah-bin]

Many thanks for these everyone, I hope other Hokkien learners are reading these threads. As far as I know, such information about different varieties of Hokkien is not available anywhere else.

[SimL]

There's something real familiar about the system U described, Sim. I think people talk this way in TW too.

Hehe! Thanks amhoanna. Despite all my protestations about being a "descriptive linguist", I sometimes feel inadequate about the way I say things, my "incorrect" usage, etc, so it's still reassuring for me to hear that some of the things I do say and which I feel to be sloppy or incorrect are actually known and said by others.

[siamiwako]

Are you from Metro Manila? I think Manila Hokkien is very Coânciu, with roots in Cìnkang 晉江. Do they say mài elsewhere in the Philippines?

Yes my ancestrl root is from Jinjiang.
I'm not from Metro Manila, I'm from Sydney.

Hardly hear people say Mai. Usually they say mang/m-hang or m-thang.

[siamiwako]

I'm not from Metro Manila, I'm from Sydney.

I'm sure there's lots of people that live in Sydney and speak 3+ languages. But somebody from Sydney speaking 3+ languages? Wild!

昨晚沒仔細想清楚就立即答覆，真是深感抱歉。
是的，我是從菲國長大後移民到雪梨，但我大部分的時間都在南方的一個小市，因此就回說不是馬尼拉人。