Frustrations

[Ming Che]

While trying to learn Mandarin Chinese the past few years it did not take me long to figure out that no two people say everything the exact same way. First I thought it was just me, my bad memory or a hearing problem but it not take me long to see what was going on. Everyone pronounces words differently! For example: Shi is pronounced what feels like a dozen different ways but really only four. I've heard it pronounced sure, shi, si and somewhere in between. Other sounds that are pronounced differently are zhe and er (two). Zhe is said like juh, dzuh or something else; er is said like ur or are. I have to remember who I'm with so I don't get yelled at for pronouncing a word "wrong." I'm always thinking to myself, "What's this, private pronunciations for everyone?!?!?"

I know that different regions say things a little different and that could explain some of my confusion. But 95% of the Chinese I know are from the same city in Taiwan!

I found a great warning for those of us learning "standard" Chinese, the "national" language: regional dialects vary, no standard pronunciation. I think it's more like: individuals vary, no standard anything.

I have a rule for learning how things are said: if you want to know how to say something, ask only *one* person or you will never know.=)

Also, people translate things differently, too. What does it mean? How would you say it in English? Depends on who you're asking...

Which brings me to my second rule: if you want to know what it means, ask just *one* person or you will never know.=)

Wondering,


John aka Cheung Ming Che

[seba]

Taiwan is a special case when you look at dialects and the pronounciation of Chinese ... a lot of people come from mainland China (waishengren) and brought their dialect/pronounciation with them so when they raise their kids they teach them their pronounciation, but at school kids are confronted with a teacher who comes from an other region and pronounces it differently so they adopt some sounds from him, and then you have the native taiwanese people who learn mandarin and also use some different pronounciation ... so you get a mixture of all kinds of pronounciations
but hey that's taiwan ... wonderfull colourfull (if you forget about the garbage and the spitting )

but your two rules are quite OK, but don't forget that language is a 'living' thing ... it evolves constantly, and so does your language, so even though you learn from one 'master' your pronounciation might still get influenced by popsongs, tv, other friends ....

just my 2 mao

[John]

I guess you could be onto something. If everyone in America (285 million?) does not agree, then over a billion people in China are probably not going to agree on much either. (I've heard the locals complain, too. Different places use different tones.) And we all come from somewhere else (originally)...

Ming Che


PS Yes Taiwan is dirty and there are betel nut stains everywhere (at least in the South) but I love it.=)

[Dr_aggie]

My suggestion is , if you are learning Mandarin, find a mainland Chinese from north China to help you. At least they will not confuse s/sh, in/ing...

Few Taiwanese can speak "standard" mandarin, nor do people from south China or southeast Asia.

[John]

Hmm... I wonder how all the Taiwanese I know will like me saying they don't speak standard (whatever that means?) Mandarin???

Anyway, I do know a couple Beijingers. And they might be coming to my neighborhood (America)...


Ming Che

[%sig%]

[Hanzi Wensheng]

Standard Mandarin is based on the Beijing dialect of Mandarin. There are many types of Mandarin, most notably Taiwan Mandarin. If you've lived in both Taiwan and the mainland, you'd immediately notice the difference between the Mandarin spoken in both places. Although they are perfectly mutually understandable, they have some different vocabularies (particularly those invented in the past 50 years or so since the Nationalists retreated to Taiwan, such as CD, DVD, VCR, computer-related terms... etc.) Also, the slangs between two places are also very different. According to my impression, Standard Mandarin has less slangs but then again, that's just my impression. Some of Taiwan Mandarin's slangs derived from Taiwanese.

To say that most Taiwanese people don't speak Standard Mandarin isn't an insult. It's just like how British people speak Standard English while Americans speak American English and Australians speak Australian English.

[Ming Che]

Yes, even I noticed that Taiwanese and Mainlanders say things a little differently. And Americans and British do say things a lot different than each other...

John