Hello Hubert,
I finally understand what you meant by your system of tones. The words for the numbers give the tone you want. One would be High Level of course (yat).
I am surprised you had 4 has High Falling. Surely this is Middle Level (as used for 8 but it is open).
Do you agree?
Regards,
Eugene Morrow
High Falling Tone in Cantonese
-
Hubert
Re: Now I understand what you mean
: Hello Hubert,
: I finally understand what you meant by your system of tones. The words for the numbers give the tone you want. One would be High Level of course (yat).
: I am surprised you had 4 has High Falling. Surely this is Middle Level (as used for 8 but it is open).
: Do you agree?
: Regards,
: Eugene Morrow
Hi Eugene,
In Cantonese, only the "closing tones" (ending with -p, -t, -ng, -k) have all three levels (high, medium and low).
4 (sei) not having -p, -k, -t, -ng
should not belong to the medium level.
If you can pronounce 394052786 correctly,
you should be able to find 384 belong to the same high level, 052 the low level and 786 descending from high, medium and finally to low.
Hubert
: I finally understand what you meant by your system of tones. The words for the numbers give the tone you want. One would be High Level of course (yat).
: I am surprised you had 4 has High Falling. Surely this is Middle Level (as used for 8 but it is open).
: Do you agree?
: Regards,
: Eugene Morrow
Hi Eugene,
In Cantonese, only the "closing tones" (ending with -p, -t, -ng, -k) have all three levels (high, medium and low).
4 (sei) not having -p, -k, -t, -ng
should not belong to the medium level.
If you can pronounce 394052786 correctly,
you should be able to find 384 belong to the same high level, 052 the low level and 786 descending from high, medium and finally to low.
Hubert
-
Anonymous
Re: High Falling Tone in Cantonese
: Whoops!
: My bad... Sorry, my Geography ain't that hot (^_^) It's just that i was there (Gongjau - ?A?B) om a recent family holiday, and noticed the contrast between HK Cantonese and the local variety. The way i spoke Cantonese made me stand out like a sore thumb.
: (^_~) Anonymous, 15.
BTW, Guangzhou has a Western name "Canton (city)", which we
Chinese usually misinterpret it as Guangdong (province). So,
"Cantonese" is Guangzhouhua (Gwongzauwa), but I suspect this
was misretrofitted as Guangdonghua (Gwongdongwa).
It surprises a little bit that you can notice the difference
between the GZ accent and HK accent. Most native speakers don't,
and hence can't understand why some people can tell if a
person is from GZ or HK from his speech. (If you've been to Foshan (Futshan),
next to GZ, you'll feel that they speak even more funnier!
The FS accent is very noticeable to a native speaker of GZ or HK
accents.)
To state the differences: Tone #1 is either high falling [53]
or high level [55]. Emphatically, it can become [51]. However,
most native speakers do not notice the difference. The
present HK accent uses high-level [55] most of the time, except
for emphasis. The GZ accent, on the other hand, uses the high-falling
tone [53] much more frequently. Ususally, [53] is used for verbs and
[55] for nouns. But they are anyway interchangable at the
speaker's will, and makes room for emphasis. This subtle difference
explains why one can tell the GZ accent from the HK accent.
(For the Foshan accent, it is tone #4 that makes the obvious
difference. GZ/HK has [21] or [11] for tone #4, but FS has
[42]. It is also a bit longer in duration in the FS accent.
The difference is quite noticeable, at least to HKers.)
: My bad... Sorry, my Geography ain't that hot (^_^) It's just that i was there (Gongjau - ?A?B) om a recent family holiday, and noticed the contrast between HK Cantonese and the local variety. The way i spoke Cantonese made me stand out like a sore thumb.
: (^_~) Anonymous, 15.
BTW, Guangzhou has a Western name "Canton (city)", which we
Chinese usually misinterpret it as Guangdong (province). So,
"Cantonese" is Guangzhouhua (Gwongzauwa), but I suspect this
was misretrofitted as Guangdonghua (Gwongdongwa).
It surprises a little bit that you can notice the difference
between the GZ accent and HK accent. Most native speakers don't,
and hence can't understand why some people can tell if a
person is from GZ or HK from his speech. (If you've been to Foshan (Futshan),
next to GZ, you'll feel that they speak even more funnier!
The FS accent is very noticeable to a native speaker of GZ or HK
accents.)
To state the differences: Tone #1 is either high falling [53]
or high level [55]. Emphatically, it can become [51]. However,
most native speakers do not notice the difference. The
present HK accent uses high-level [55] most of the time, except
for emphasis. The GZ accent, on the other hand, uses the high-falling
tone [53] much more frequently. Ususally, [53] is used for verbs and
[55] for nouns. But they are anyway interchangable at the
speaker's will, and makes room for emphasis. This subtle difference
explains why one can tell the GZ accent from the HK accent.
(For the Foshan accent, it is tone #4 that makes the obvious
difference. GZ/HK has [21] or [11] for tone #4, but FS has
[42]. It is also a bit longer in duration in the FS accent.
The difference is quite noticeable, at least to HKers.)
-
Anonymous
Re: High Falling Tone in Cantonese
: I actually posted my email address? Where? - I would never usually do such a thing.
: Well, anyway I was born in HK, but barely reached two before my parents moved to GT. Britain. BTW, i'd like to make a correction, when i wrote about my spoken-tongue making me appear non-local i actually meant in Guangxi when i went to visit family in Ningming.
Of course! Even in Foshan, an important city next to Guangzhou, you'll sound very non-local and
the people around you will be using an accent that sound "strange" to you.
You don't have to be outside Guangdong to sound non-local. Travel south of Foshan and
Guangzhou to the 4-county region. You'll find that you can't communicate (*) with the
people there, because they speak Toishanese. Toishanese is a sub-dialect of Cantonese,
and it is unintelligible with Cantonese.
: Whilst i was in GZ all the channels i ever saw were in Mandarin, and besides you over-estimate the power of media-influence; i'm sure it would take more than a couple of HK-accented television presenters to change the speech of an entire city - come on, what do you take these people for? That said, most of Britain's films and tv soaps are from America - i have yet to see people calling sweets 'candy', or calling mobile phones 'cell phones', a film a 'movie', writing analyse as 'analyze', or arse as 'ass' - okay, so you get the idea.
Are you sure? I remember that some channels broadcast in Cantonese even 15 years ago.
Since the 80s, China has become more open. Even people in villages of Guangdong are rich enough to afford a
TV nowadays. The channels broadcast in Cantonese. This is also true in the 4-county region
mentioned above -- even for the channels intended for local communities only! Moreover, most of these people can
now receive HK channels, which are in Cantonese or English. They find the HK channels more entertaining, "fashionable" and
more informative. So, they watch HK channels most of the time. As a result, the younger generation in the
4-county region can now speak Cantonese, but with a typical Toishan accent. You no longer need Toishanese to get around
in these areas.
: Well, anyway I was born in HK, but barely reached two before my parents moved to GT. Britain. BTW, i'd like to make a correction, when i wrote about my spoken-tongue making me appear non-local i actually meant in Guangxi when i went to visit family in Ningming.
Of course! Even in Foshan, an important city next to Guangzhou, you'll sound very non-local and
the people around you will be using an accent that sound "strange" to you.
You don't have to be outside Guangdong to sound non-local. Travel south of Foshan and
Guangzhou to the 4-county region. You'll find that you can't communicate (*) with the
people there, because they speak Toishanese. Toishanese is a sub-dialect of Cantonese,
and it is unintelligible with Cantonese.
: Whilst i was in GZ all the channels i ever saw were in Mandarin, and besides you over-estimate the power of media-influence; i'm sure it would take more than a couple of HK-accented television presenters to change the speech of an entire city - come on, what do you take these people for? That said, most of Britain's films and tv soaps are from America - i have yet to see people calling sweets 'candy', or calling mobile phones 'cell phones', a film a 'movie', writing analyse as 'analyze', or arse as 'ass' - okay, so you get the idea.
Are you sure? I remember that some channels broadcast in Cantonese even 15 years ago.
Since the 80s, China has become more open. Even people in villages of Guangdong are rich enough to afford a
TV nowadays. The channels broadcast in Cantonese. This is also true in the 4-county region
mentioned above -- even for the channels intended for local communities only! Moreover, most of these people can
now receive HK channels, which are in Cantonese or English. They find the HK channels more entertaining, "fashionable" and
more informative. So, they watch HK channels most of the time. As a result, the younger generation in the
4-county region can now speak Cantonese, but with a typical Toishan accent. You no longer need Toishanese to get around
in these areas.
-
Kobo-Daishi
Re: High Falling Tone in Cantonese
Dear Anonymous,
Are you a second anonymous? If not, you've developed a split personality and are talking to yourself.
If you're a second anonymous, please adopt a pseudonym, so, readers won't be confused.
When my parents were in Taishan, they said they watched HK tv using satellite dishes.
A woman that works with me who left Kaiping about 5 years ago, also, says that she received HK tv using satellite dishes.
When my co-worker speaks Kai ping hua, which is supposed to be similar to Taishanese, I'm not able to understand her. But, when I speak Taishanese she understands me.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
Are you a second anonymous? If not, you've developed a split personality and are talking to yourself.
If you're a second anonymous, please adopt a pseudonym, so, readers won't be confused.
When my parents were in Taishan, they said they watched HK tv using satellite dishes.
A woman that works with me who left Kaiping about 5 years ago, also, says that she received HK tv using satellite dishes.
When my co-worker speaks Kai ping hua, which is supposed to be similar to Taishanese, I'm not able to understand her. But, when I speak Taishanese she understands me.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
Re: High Falling Tone in Cantonese
Whilst other dialects of Cantonese may have as many as 9 distinctly different tones, such as the Cantonese spoken in GuangXi province, and that of the Guangzhou province. But whereas these tones may be heard with a native ear, a foreign one might have trouble distinguishing these tones from the others.