五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Locked
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by FutureSpy »

In another thread, I commented about "五語快易通", a wonderful material containing 200 sentences in 10 (despite the name! :mrgreen:) languages: Hokkien (Taiwanese/Tâi-lâm, Quemoy) + Foochow (Matsu) + Hakka (Si-yen, Hoi-liuk, Thai-phu, Ngieu-phin, Tsau-on, Wu-hua) + Ami + Atayal + Bunun + Puyuma + Paiwan + English + Mandarin.
http://www3.shps.tp.edu.tw/ez5language/

limkianhui made a Chiang-chiu version of these sentences + audio long ago: http://www.hokkienese.com/?p=569

A few months ago, I asked my teacher to translate the first few sentences. I'm posting here the first 10 (I have another 10 already translated at home, but now I'm at my parents'). I'll post the audio later. I'll ask her to translate the rest when we have some further free time...

I'm also posting the rest of the versions side by side for comparison. There are indeed errors in my romanization for Chiang-chiu, so if you guys find anything wrong on it it's completely -MY- fault...
000
咱人話(宿霧)
台湾話(台南)
金門話
漳州話
英文
001
學堂邊頭/附近有啥物好食的物件?
o̍h-tn̂g pi-thâu/hù-kīn ū siá-mi̍h hó chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiā?

學校附近有啥物好食的物件?
ha̍k-hāu hù-kīn ū siáⁿ-mi̍h hór chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ?

學堂附近有啥物好食的物件?
o̍h-tn̂g hù-kūn ū siáⁿ-mi̍h hó chia̍h ê mn̍gh-kiāⁿ?

學堂邊仔有啥好食的物件無?
o̍h-tn̂g piⁿ--á ū sáⁿ hó chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ--bô?

Is there anything good to eat around the school?
002
好食的物件?彼著濟囉!
hó chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiā? he tū tsoē--lo!

好食的物件?彼著濟囉!
hór chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ? he tio̍rh tsē--lòo!

好食的物件?彼著濟囉!
hó chia̍h ê mn̍gh kiāⁿ? he tio̍h tsoē--lo!

好食的物件?彼著濟囉!
hó chia̍h ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ? he to̍h tsē--lo!

Good to eat? Oh, lots of things!
003
我上愛去夜市仔食物件。
goá siōng ài khì iā-chhī-á chia̍h mi̍h-kiā.

我上愛去夜市仔食物件。
goá siōng ài khì iā-chhī-á chia̍h mi̍h-kiāⁿ

我第一愛去夜市食物件。
goá tē it ài khìr iā-chhī chia̍h mn̍gh-kiāⁿ.

我上愛去夜市仔食物件。
goá siāng ài khì iā-chhī-á chia̍h mi̍h-kiāⁿ.

I love eating out at the night market.
004
暗頓攢好矣!緊來食飯。
àm-tǹg chhoân-hó--lo! kín lâi chia̍h pn̄g.

暗頓攢好矣!緊來食飯。
àm-tǹg chhoân-hór--lòo! kín lâi chia̍h pn̄g.

下昏頓攢好矣!緊來食飯。
ē-hng-tǹg chhoân hó--a! kín lâi chia̍h pn̄g.

下昏頓款好矣!較猛來食飯。
ē-huiⁿ-tuìⁿ khoáⁿ hó--a! khah-mé lâi chia̍h puīⁿ.

Dinner is ready! Please come to the table.
005
趁燒,緊食!
thàn sio, kín chia̍h!

趁燒,緊食!
thàn sior, kín chia̍h!

趁燒,緊食!
thàn sior, kín chia̍h!

趁燒,緊食!
thàn sio, kín chia̍h!

Let’s eat while the food is hot.
006
暗頓真好/豐富。
àm-tǹg chin hó/hong-hù.

暗頓誠腥臊。
àm-tǹg chiâⁿ chheⁿ-chhau.

下昏頓誠鮮臊。
ē-hng-tǹg chiâⁿ chhiⁿ-chho.

下昏頓真腥臊。
ē-huiⁿ-tuìⁿ chin chheⁿ-chhau.

What a big dinner!
007
這項菜真好食。
chit hāng chhài chin hó chia̍h.

這項菜真好食。
chit hāng chhài chin hór chia̍h.

這垣菜真好食。
chit ûn chhài chin hó chia̍h.

這項菜真好食。
chit hāng chhài chin hó chia̍h.

The dish is very delicious.
008
敢欲食一寡果子?好矣!我欲食芎蕉。
k(i)àm-beh chia̍h chi̍t ká ké-chí? hó--a! goá beh chia̍h keng-chio.

敢欲食一寡果子?好矣!我欲食芎蕉。
kàm-beh chia̍h chi̍t koá koé-chí? hór--a! goá beh chia̍h keng-chior.

有欲食果子無?有!我欲食芎蕉。
ū berh chia̍h kér-chì bô? ū! goá berh chia̍h keng-chio.

敢欲食寡果子?好!我欲食牙蕉。
kám-beh chia̍h koá koé-chí? hó! goá beh chia̍h gê-chio.

Would you like some fruit? That’s great! May I have a banana?
009
我會使閣啉一杯茶無?
goá ē-ēng koh dim chi̍t poe tê--bô?

我會使閣啉一杯茶無?
goá ē-sái korh lim chi̍t poe tê--bôr?

我會使閣啉一嘴茶袂?
goá ē-sái koh lim chi̍t chhuì tê--boē?

我會使閣啉一嘴仔茶袂?
goá ē-sái koh lim chi̍t chhuì-á tê--bē?

May I have another cup of tea?
010
你欲食一寡物件無?
dí beh chia̍h chi̍t ká mi̍h-kiā—bô?

你欲食一寡物件無?
lí beh chia̍h chi̍t koá mi̍h-kiāⁿ--bôr?

汝欲食一下物件無?
lír berh chia̍h chi̍t ē mn̍gh-kiāⁿ--bô?

你欲食寡物件毋?
lí beh chia̍h koá mi̍h-kiāⁿ--m̄?

Would you like something to eat?

amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by amhoanna »

Thanks, FSpy.

Notice how closely her Cebu Hoklo tracks the TWese. When TW and Quemoy diverge, Cebu stays right with TW.

l-/d- and -o/-or are not phonemic differences... Why distinguish them in your spelling?

Honghù smells like a Mandarism to me. I'm guessing the young people don't speak Hoklo enough, so vocab like "chhennchau" drops out of their active vocab, to be replaced by honghù as they power through "Chinese school". It's possible that her great-grandparents said honghù instead of chennchau, but I would bet against it.

FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by FutureSpy »

amhoanna wrote:l-/d- and -o/-or are not phonemic differences... Why distinguish them in your spelling?
Just a reminder so that I don't end up pronouncing it as l-. Like-wise, I shouldn't have marking vowels with -r either, or remove the nasalization, but still... *shrugs*
amhoanna wrote:Honghù smells like a Mandarism to me. I'm guessing the young people don't speak Hoklo enough, so vocab like "chhennchau" drops out of their active vocab, to be replaced by honghù as they power through "Chinese school". It's possible that her great-grandparents said honghù instead of chennchau, but I would bet against it.
Yep. At first she said "chin hó". Then I asked her if she knew any other words, and she said "People say hong-hù, but I think that's Mandarin". Indeed, she said she didn't know "chheⁿ-chhau".

BTW, that reminds me: have you noticed the differences in her usage of ē-sái and ē-ēng? You can notice that also in one of her first dialogues... And I'm starting to get confused about it!

[EDIT]
Here are the sentences:
王:你會用去伊辦公室揣伊。
lí ē-ēng khì i pān-kong-sik chhē i.
陳:你如果有閒,會用去阮兜揣我開講。
lí jû-kó ū-ûi, ē-ēng khì gún tau chhē góa khai-káng.
陳:我的老母交代阮,佇臺灣袂用講一句英文話。
góa ê lāu-bú kau-tài gún, tī Tâi-oân boē-ēng kóng chi̍t-kù Eng-bûn-oē.
Wouldn't ē-sái be more appropriated in these sentences, at least according to Taiwanese usage?

amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by amhoanna »

Ěsai could be used, but might not be the best choice;

ětàng is the one U want, keeping in mind that it's a Taiwanism;

ě'ēngtit is also frequently used in TW, often elided to ě'ēnggeh in running (sandhi) positions, or ě'ēng--ê in final position; plain ě'ēng might be OK too -- I'm not sure if I've heard it, but I can guarantee U any TWese spkr would understand it w/o effort.

There is overlap btw all of these. The difference btw the first two is that esai deals more with raw possibility, while etang and e'engtit deal with permissibility, or feasibility in a social context -- esp. the latter. That's why they fit those sentences better than esai.

Pinoy Hokkiens I've met or heard tend to prefer ěcòe, which is marginal in TW at this point. Not sure where ecoe and e'eng overlap and where they differ -- U can ask your tutor!

FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by FutureSpy »

I see. For some reason, I thought "ē-sái" was the one that expressed permissibility, like if the mother tell their kids: "tī Tâi-oân boē-sái kóng chi̍t-kù Eng-bûn-oē", or if you ask permission to get in: "góa ē-sái li̍p-lâi bô?", but I guess I'm confused about how to use all them... :oops:
amhoanna wrote:Pinoy Hokkiens I've met or heard tend to prefer ěcòe, which is marginal in TW at this point. Not sure where ecoe and e'eng overlap and where they differ -- U can ask your tutor!
Indeed, she told me she doesn't use "ē-tàng". Honestly, I've never seen her use anything besides "ē-ēng", but I'll ask her about "ē-chòe". Sometimes, she seems to ommit the "hiáu" in "ē-hiáu" and simply say "ē" (which makes me think it's due to Mandarin influence?).

amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by amhoanna »

I think your sentences are good, esp. when trying to sound very polite, modest and humble, as a man might do sometimes, or a woman is expected to do all the time in the Confucio-agricultural complex. :lol: As for stand-alone "ě", this is probably a native usage. I do hear it a lot outside TW, I believe (not sure) esp. in places with a Tang Oann 同安 pedigree. In the movie 15, made by Royston Tan out of Singapore, the father says to his kid, "別人个囝,逐个 ě 讀册,独独汝..." (SMACK)

FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: 五語快易通 (Cebu version)

Post by FutureSpy »

She sent me a quick message:
eh tsoi is usually used in asking questions. Most of the time is used to ask questions like for example "eh tsoi tsio din eh tian oi boh? - can i borrow you're phone?" then you would answer "tong dian mah eh tsoi - of course, you can".
Anyway, I'll ask her for more examples later.
amhoanna wrote:As for stand-alone "ě", this is probably a native usage.
Good to know. I'll watch in which cases she seem to drop it, but so far, basically sentences where you could use hiáu. Offtopic note: I've seen Royston Tan's movie some 9 or 10 years ago, and I remember it really shocked me in many ways :mrgreen:

Locked