間諜將來, U can start with these two dialogs.
One:
“Girlie, where you going?”
“Out, Mom.”
“Don’t take that tone with me young lady! You’re not going out with that Johnson boy again! He’s trouble!”
“Mom! He’s my husband! I love him!”
“I won’t have it! I’ve been talking to Jimmy Lewis’s mother, and she thinks you two would make an adorable pair. He’s a retired lawyer, you know. Good genes.”
“You never listen to me, Mom!”
Two:
Me – “Man, I’m bummed.”
Him – “Why?”
Me – “Everyone I know is getting married.”
Him – “It could be worse. Everyone I know is dying.”
Lifted from:
http://doctorquack.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... -twenties/
I picked this article at random, but the "ten things" are pretty interesting too. U could also ask your tutor to translate those.
I think English would be much better than Mandarin for templates or skits. This is b/c English sentences don't interfere with the Hoklo mind anywhere close to as much as Mandarin sentences.
Keep in mind that U may have to acclimate your tutor to the idea of bringing in outside materials like this. U may have to take it slow.
If your tutor hesitates while translating, U might want to offer to let her have more time. Obviously it might be rude or unreasonable to ask her to translate the dialogs on her own time... What I mean is, U can let her think (subconsciously) for a while on how to translate or rephrase, poss. while she's teaching U something else.
Déjame saber que si este te ayudó o no por favor...
dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Thanks, amhoanna! These seem actually pretty interesting, indeed. And very far from the bookish conversations I'm used to. Since it's already Tue, I'll hand them out to her on Sat. This way she'll have a whole week to think about these Expect to hear something from me in 1w and a half!
I gave her dialogues to a Taiwanese, and to my surprise, she changed and rephrased so many things that I wonder if Taiwanese and Cebu Hokkien are really that similar. Of course, some of her choices also differ from my textbooks and other Taiwanese I know... I guess I'll need help later with some words. Sorry!
BTW, I was reading these during my boring Statistical Inference class (I didn't miss anything, the teacher was doing all literal exercises again *sigh*) and I actually relate to many things in the post... Girlish yet so true!
PS: Instead of filling up your mail inbox with so many emails, I guess I'll post my questions here and keep emails for more important things... This way I won't end up sending you so many emails in a row! Sorry for that
I gave her dialogues to a Taiwanese, and to my surprise, she changed and rephrased so many things that I wonder if Taiwanese and Cebu Hokkien are really that similar. Of course, some of her choices also differ from my textbooks and other Taiwanese I know... I guess I'll need help later with some words. Sorry!
BTW, I was reading these during my boring Statistical Inference class (I didn't miss anything, the teacher was doing all literal exercises again *sigh*) and I actually relate to many things in the post... Girlish yet so true!
PS: Instead of filling up your mail inbox with so many emails, I guess I'll post my questions here and keep emails for more important things... This way I won't end up sending you so many emails in a row! Sorry for that
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Hola, 間諜將來, espero los resultados. Tus mensajes no me molestaron ni un poquitín, me gusta mucho hablar sobre este tema, sobre este idioma. Puedes escribirme aquí o a través de correo electrónico... Creo que sería mejor escribirnos aquí en un foro público porque aquí el mundo puede leer lo que escribimos, así que lo que escribimos cuenta con más utilidad... Pero correo electrónico sirve también!
Además, creo que no necesitamos escribir en algun idioma particular aquí, aparte del inglés y el mismo joquien, el portugués o el castellano o cualquier otro idioma sirve también!
Además, creo que no necesitamos escribir en algun idioma particular aquí, aparte del inglés y el mismo joquien, el portugués o el castellano o cualquier otro idioma sirve también!
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Tienes razón. El problema es que no todos hablamos dichas lenguas. Desde el punto de vista de llegar a la gente, creo que sin duda el inglés va mejor, pero si la idea es de llegar a aún más gente, no estaría mal. Además del castellano, sería interesante tener discusiones en ruso, pero al menos yo de ruso no tengo ni idea
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
F-Spy's tutor's wording (no audio yet), my romanization:
“[Girlie,] where you going?”
Lí beh khì tólo̍h? / toh'ūi?
“Out, Mom.”
Mah, góa beh chut ‧khì.
“Don’t take that tone with me young lady! You’re not going out with that Johnson boy again! He’s trouble!”
Lí hit gê siaⁿtiāu kā góa khah cù'ì ‧ci̍t ‧tiámmá. Lí m̄'ang koh kiau JOHNSON hit gê lâng còe ci̍t ẽ chut ‧khì! I cí ẽ hõ‧ lí ke mâhoân.
“Mom! He’s my husband! I love him!”
Mah, i sĩ goá ê tiõnghu. Goá ài ‧i!
“I won’t have it! I’ve been talking to Jimmy Lewis’s mother, and she thinks you two would make an adorable pair. He’s a retired lawyer, you know. Good genes.”
Goá putcún lí kap i coè ci̍t ẽ. Goá ũ kap JIMMY LEWIS ê lãubú chamsiông ‧kè, i mã kámkak lín nn~g ê cin phoè. I sĩ ci̍t ūi thèhiu ê cèngsi (?). Sĩ ci̍t khoán cin hó ê ûithoân.
“You never listen to me, Mom!”
Mah, lí ta̍k mái tō sĩ m̄ thiaⁿ góa ê ìkiàn!
“[Girlie,] where you going?”
Lí beh khì tólo̍h? / toh'ūi?
“Out, Mom.”
Mah, góa beh chut ‧khì.
“Don’t take that tone with me young lady! You’re not going out with that Johnson boy again! He’s trouble!”
Lí hit gê siaⁿtiāu kā góa khah cù'ì ‧ci̍t ‧tiámmá. Lí m̄'ang koh kiau JOHNSON hit gê lâng còe ci̍t ẽ chut ‧khì! I cí ẽ hõ‧ lí ke mâhoân.
“Mom! He’s my husband! I love him!”
Mah, i sĩ goá ê tiõnghu. Goá ài ‧i!
“I won’t have it! I’ve been talking to Jimmy Lewis’s mother, and she thinks you two would make an adorable pair. He’s a retired lawyer, you know. Good genes.”
Goá putcún lí kap i coè ci̍t ẽ. Goá ũ kap JIMMY LEWIS ê lãubú chamsiông ‧kè, i mã kámkak lín nn~g ê cin phoè. I sĩ ci̍t ūi thèhiu ê cèngsi (?). Sĩ ci̍t khoán cin hó ê ûithoân.
“You never listen to me, Mom!”
Mah, lí ta̍k mái tō sĩ m̄ thiaⁿ góa ê ìkiàn!
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
amhoanna, thanks for your improved romanization!
[EDIT]
BTW, here's what MOE's dictionary says:
...and you forgot lut8-si as an alternative to itamhoanna wrote:cèngsi
[EDIT]
BTW, here's what MOE's dictionary says:
Possibly 狀師? I'll let you know by the end of the week after I hear her pronounce it...受當事人委託或法院指定,依法協助當事人訴訟、出庭辯護,以及處理有關法律事務的專業人員。以前叫「狀師」(tsn̄g-su)。
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Okay, here are both dialogues. I adapted amhoanna's romanization for the first dialogue to POJ and to slightly reflect more my tutor's pronunciation, and added MOE's hàn-jī. I hope I'm not creating too many mistakes. I'll post the audio shortly...
[EDIT] Audios are already here. ^^
[EDIT] Audios are already here. ^^
(I): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/u5g ... vy/tl1.mp3
老母:你欲去佗位/佗落?
Dí beh khì tó-lo̍h/toh-ūi?
[Girlie,] where you going?
老媽:Girlie, 你要去哪裡?
女兒:媽,我欲出去。
Mah, góa beh chhut--khì.
Out, Mom.
女兒:媽,我要出去。
老母:你彼个聲調共我較注意一點仔!你毋通閣交JOHNSON彼个人做一下出去。伊只(是)會予你加/增加麻煩!
Dí hit-gê sia-tiāu kā góa khah chù-ì--chi̍t-tiám-á. Dí mang koh kiau JOHNSON hit-gê lâng chòe chi̍t-ē chhut--khì! I chí(-sī) ē hō͘ dí ke/cheng-kah mâ-hoân.
Don't take that tone with me young lady! You're not going out with that Johnson boy again! He's trouble!
老媽:你那個聲調給我注意一點!你別再跟Johnson那個人一起出去!他只能給你添(增加)麻煩!
女兒:媽,伊是我的丈夫。我愛伊!
Mah, i sī goá ê tiōng-hu. Goá ài--i!
Mom! He’s my husband! I love him!
女兒:媽,他是我的丈夫。我愛他!
老母:我不准你佮伊做一下。我有佮JIMMY LEWIS的老母參詳過,伊嘛感覺恁兩个真配。伊是一位退休律師/狀師。是一款真好的遺傳。
Goá put-chún dí kap i choè chi̍t-ē. Goá ū kap JIMMY LEWIS ê lāu-bú cham-siông--kè, i mā kám-kak dín nn̄g-ê chin phòe. I sī chi̍t-ūi thè-hiu ê chn̄g-si/lu̍t-si. Sī chi̍t-khoán chin hó ê ûi-thoân.
I won't have it! I've been talking to Jimmy Lewis's mother, and she thinks you two would make an adorable pair. He's a retired lawyer, you know. Good genes.
老媽:我不准你跟他一起。我有跟Jimmy Lewis老媽商量過,她也感覺你們兩口很配。他是一位退休律師。是一種很好的遺傳。
女兒:媽,你逐擺都是毋聽我的意見!
Mah, dí ta̍k-mái tō sī m̄-thia góa ê ì-kiàn!
You never listen to me, Mom!
女兒:媽,你總是不聽我的意見!
(II): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/et8 ... md/tl2.mp3
A:我規个人真煩。
Góa kui-ê lâng chin hoân.
I felt so annoyed or nuisance.
A: 我整個人很煩。
B:你是按怎/為啥物那會煩?
Dí sī-án-chóa/ūi-siá-mih ná-ē hoân?
Why do you feel annoyed?
B: 你怎麼/為什麼會煩?
A:我所捌的人逐個都牽/結婚了。
Góa só͘-pat ê lâng ta̍k-gê tu khan/kiat-hun--lò.
Everyone I know is getting married.
A: 我所認識的個個都結婚了。
B:我閣較慘。我所捌的人逐個都過眠/過身了。
Góa koh khah chhám. Góa só͘-pat ê lâng ta̍k-gê tu kè-bîn/kè-sin--lò.
It could be worse. Everyone I know is dying.
B: 我更慘。我所認識的人個個都過世了。
Last edited by FutureSpy on Sun May 19, 2013 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
Interesting, some of her tones were actually not what I thought they would be. I'll have to go through it with the audio when I 有閑.
[d] and [l] are allophonic in her dialect. It should be either "Lí beh khì tólo̍h" OR "Dí beh khì tódo̍h".
Something that I wonder about: Do they not use the word "ang" at all for HUSBAND? Philippines sources in general seem to favor bookish vocabulary. But have they also kept the deep colloquial words, like "ang"? Or have they completely lost them? Do they know them but just always, always put out the bookish words when teaching people the language?
I should add that nobody would use the word 丈夫 for HUSBAND in Taiwan in daily life situations. It would always be "ang" (in general) or maybe sometimes "gún thâu ‧ê" (literally THE HEAD ONE AMONG US) if a woman is referring to her own husband.
[d] and [l] are allophonic in her dialect. It should be either "Lí beh khì tólo̍h" OR "Dí beh khì tódo̍h".
Something that I wonder about: Do they not use the word "ang" at all for HUSBAND? Philippines sources in general seem to favor bookish vocabulary. But have they also kept the deep colloquial words, like "ang"? Or have they completely lost them? Do they know them but just always, always put out the bookish words when teaching people the language?
I should add that nobody would use the word 丈夫 for HUSBAND in Taiwan in daily life situations. It would always be "ang" (in general) or maybe sometimes "gún thâu ‧ê" (literally THE HEAD ONE AMONG US) if a woman is referring to her own husband.
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
You mean different from what you heard in Binondo and Luzon?amhoanna wrote:Interesting, some of her tones were actually not what I thought they would be. I'll have to go through it with the audio when I 有閑.
Wangli and Young also give tó-lo̍h with a L.amhoanna wrote:[d] and [l] are allophonic in her dialect. It should be either "Lí beh khì tólo̍h" OR "Dí beh khì tódo̍h".
The thing is that she almost never use tó-lo̍h. She told me the preferred choice there is toh-ūi, just like in Taiwanese, but that goes against what both Young and Wangli books give for that. Maybe Lán-nâng-ōe or Nán-nâng-ōe (how she calls it), just like Taiwanese, is more regional than we think?
I'll ask her if she knows any synonyms for tiōng-hu. So far, I heard her using tiōng-hu once, then it also appeared on Young's book and she confirmed it without doing any remarks, and now on these translations. So if she knows it at all, "ang" isn't her first choice for "husband".amhoanna wrote:But have they also kept the deep colloquial words, like "ang"? Or have they completely lost them? Do they know them but just always, always put out the bookish words when teaching people the language?
I don't know, really. For example, she told me before she doesn't use chit-má, but I caught her using it already. Of course, far less than chi̍t-chūn and hiān-chāi. Perhaps it has to do with exposition to other varieties/dialects?
Re: dialogs for learning Hoklo w/ a tutor
No -- I mean different from what I expected. I haven't had as much exposure to any kind of Pinoy Hokkien as I would like. This is b/c Phils Hokkiens are so sequestered, and I am so tight with money that I don't go to the places where they go. For example, I'm still trying to figure out what they do with the khinsiaⁿ.
Of course. What I mean is that since [l] and [d] are allophonic (same phoneme) in Hoklo, they should be written with one and the same letter.Wangli and Young also give tó-lo̍h with a L.
Yes. I heard somewhere that Cebu Hokkien had more of a Liong-Hai (龍海) base. This would be evidence in support of that (toh-ui vs toloh). But over all, I've been surprised at how similar Cebu Hokkien sounds to Manila Hokkien. Unsolved mysteries. In case U are wondering, modern-day Liong-Hai Hokkien is the closest-sounding Mainland dialect to Mainstream Taiwanese. I heard snatches of Liong-Hai Hokkien on an earlier trip to Cebu, but now I don't know if I was imagining things or what.Maybe Lán-nâng-ōe or Nán-nâng-ōe (how she calls it), just like Taiwanese, is more regional than we think?