The 7 tones - Recordings?

[Ah-bin]

Ah, this person was an expert on tone, but not on Hoklo tone!

It's unlikely that the tones in Hokkien developed on their own, if that were the case, there wouldn't be any correspondences between the tone classes in other Sinitic languages or the old Sinitic loans in Vietnamese.

[amhoanna]

Since accurate info on Penang Hokkien tone contours is kind of hard to come by, I decided to tackle the issue with a Kedah native as informant. This is what came of it: http://banlam.tawa.asia/2012/10/beima-s ... kkien.html

Just now, I found Ah-bin's contour chart, buried in a random thread: http://www.chineselanguage.org/forums/v ... +21#p35264
... for those that don't mind the 3-level "tonemic" approach.

Regarding 33 vs. 44, my informant said he used to think it was 33, but now he thinks it's 44.

He also crafted a chart himself: http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 4305_n.jpg

[Ah-bin]

Thanks so much Amhoanna. It's nice to have confirmation of these things. I think the Wikipedia page should also reflect the reality of the situation, i.e. that Northern Malaysian Hokkien has a tone system that is vastly simplified compared to other varieties.

Ah-long has also noted a higher tone 55 in borrowed words such as the final particle me• (this would be your friend's 高陰入 but it is not always a and a few colloquial onomatapoeic words, but basically (if you do what Cantonese textbooks do, and base the number of tones on the sounds rather than the traditional tone categories, then you have only four basic tones:

A mid level tone (1 - long and 8- short)
A mid rising tone (5)
A high rising/falling tone (depends on the speaker, 2 on the chart)
A low falling tone (3, and 4 - long and 7- short)

I feel I've missed something here....

As for the Sandhied versions. I would say,

3 ONLY becomes 1, never 2
4 only becomes 8, never 2 and the distinction in other Hokkien dialects between k,t,p endings and h ending no longer exists. I have had one person tell me that only people who speak Hokkien poorly say khe•h-lâng 客儂 as "Khé•h+lâng" whereas it should be "Khé•+lâng" (as in Taiwanese, with a slightly different vowel and sandhi) but I don't believe I have ever heard a native speaker of Penang Hokkien (even the one who told me) drop the glottal stop in a word like this unconsciously. The only places I have heard it dropped are chiá(h)-lát 食力 and lāu-joá(h) 鬧熱 which ends up sounding like lāu-joa instead.

Sometimes I also wonder whether people are distinguishing -h and -k at all.

[SimL]

Sometimes I also wonder whether people are distinguishing -h and -k at all.

In final position, I certainly distinguish them:

- ah4 (duck) vs. ak4 (to water plants)
- kah4 (to teach / instruct) vs. kak4 (horn, e.g. of a goat or cow)
- sek8 (ripe) vs. seh8 (to go riding around in a car)

Is this old-fashioned?

[Ah-bin]

Not at all Sim, I suppose I was thinking of how often people with no POJ (or other system) write -k for the -h ending, But this probably has more to do with Malay spelling than not making a distinction.

As for the change in tone on a words such as kah and bah, I think that is probably old-fashioned; i.e. used in Malaysia more by older native Hokkien speakers (from China) than younger native speakers of Penang-style Hokkien. The Wikipedia article should reflect this, I think.

[SimL]

Not at all Sim, I suppose I was thinking of how often people with no POJ (or other system) write -k for the -h ending, But this probably has more to do with Malay spelling than not making a distinction.

Ahhhh! I see what you mean now. Yes, definitely. Influenced by Malay spelling, many Malaysians often conflate these two final Hokkien consonants when writing, as "-k". My "Tua Peh" for most of his life signed himself as "Tua Pek" in letters and mails to me, but in the past few years, has actually used "Tua Peh" once or twice, under my influence .

[ahkiao]

Hi, I'm not sure how relevant this is to you now, but I have a CD of the recordings of the tones of Amoy Hokkien. It came with a book I bought in Xiamen, 闽南话教程 by 林宝卿 i believe. My dad believes it is definitely amoy hokkien (he is a native amoy hokkien speaker, and moved to singapore later in his teen years).
If you're not able to find a recording of it online, perhaps i could send you the clip if its allowed.