I'm about to start a new job next week, so won't be able to manage it, unfortunately. I hope someone records a few. It would be interesting to hear Hokkien used in this context. Back in Taiwan in the 1990's and 2000's it was usual to campaign in Taiwanese where I was living (Taichung and Tainan), even the KMT did it.
I was just reminded of this video that Aokh brought to my attention a few days ago, it is full of Interesting stuff, a bit of English, a bit of Mandarin, a bit of nativised Malay. I wonder if the political campaigns use a similar style?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRTvAWPQCQ
I've been going through trying to collect some words from it as well.
He uses a word hEn-si at 5:33. Is that 現時....? If so that is the third native Hokkien word for "now" I have found so far, after tong-kim and than-a! Or is it more like "at the moment"?
More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Hi Ah-bin,
Great link! I listened to it over and over again.
It's very interesting to see this sort of person, who apparently speaks English and Mandarin quite well (as well as Hokkien). Very different from my generation, which either spoke English/Hokkien or Mandarin/Hokkien, hardly ever all three (well).
I infer that his English and Mandarin are both quite good from the fact that he borrows equally and naturally from both these languages. I think these are words for which he doesn't know the Hokkien equivalents (or can't think of them quickly enough), and he hence uses either the English or Mandarin equivalents. In contrast, the Malay words he uses are really just completely integrated into his form of Hokkien (as you also said in your original posting). In fact, for these Malay borrowings, using the "real" Hokkien equivalents (or English or Mandarin borrowings) in these spots would be completely awkward.
This is a piece of speech which is just screaming out for transcription by me
. I might do that in the next few months, if I get the energy.
There are many "higher register" Hokkien words which I'm completely unfamiliar with. Examples are "gi-guan", "sio-huan", "i-kien", "am-pai" (or "an-pai"). I can guess the meaning of some, like "loh-pio" is probably "to tender". Anyway, they can all be cleared up if I get around to transcribing. I'm sure Mark would do much better than me at understanding this whole passage.
In the meanwhile, I've listed the Malay, English, and Mandarin words that he uses (and also some Hokkien ones of special interest).
First I list them grouped by each of the 4 languages, but - within each group - as they first occur chronologically. Here I include some comments and observations.
The Mandarin list is not complete, as there are some which I can't work out or even make a wild guess at. (And please excuse my ignorance if my guesses for the characters are wrong.) I think the Malay, and English lists are quite complete though.
Then, for convenience, I list these "interesting words" in pure chronological order, but then without comments. This latter order is much easier to check against the actual clip.
GROUPED BY LANGUAGE
Malay
[00:23] bansan: market
[00:24] balu: just recently [also 04:59]
[01:15] pole-tikut: glass-drip-smooth
= Pulau Tikus [also 07:27]
[05:24] pun: definitely "pun2" here [also 06:23, 06:29, 07:06]
[05:32] pun?: he says "bun2", but it seems to be "pun" from context (which he uses elsewhere)
Interestingly, he uses the above Malay borrowings naturally, but he never says "tapi", always "tansi" [02:45], [07:01].
English
[00:18] support
[00:47] budget
[00:54] so [also at 00:58]; he seems to alternate with ("proper" Hokkien) "sO-i" [06:57]
[01:02] Penang
[02:12] Mr. Lee
[02:20] architect
[02:24] tender
[02:35] start
[02:40] open tender
[02:51] contractor
[04:21] toilet
[04:27] car park
[04:35] MPPP e office
[05:44] free
[05:49] free e voucher
[06:06] promotion
He doesn't say "modern", he says "sin1-khuan2" [00:37].
Mandarin
[00:21] zhu-yao? 主要: is this a borrowing from Mandarin? (Or is it a genuine Hokkien term cu-iau? I can't find it in Douglas or Barclay)
[00:46] yusuanan 預算案 (he also translates this as "budget", perhaps in case the interviewer's Mandarin isn't good enough)
[01:52] fanshang? ??
[01:55] daodi? 到底 [also 06:12]
[03:36] shijianbiao 時間表
[03:59] tiaoyue?? 條約??
[04:07] xiaoshi zhongxin 小食中心
[04:19] gongcheng? 工程?
[04:40] lingshi? 零食?
[06:21] guocheng 過程
[07:19] bugaolan 佈告欄
[07:22] yijianxiang 意見箱
Hokkien
[00:41] lang2: the famous Penang Hokkien "lang2" for "we/us"
[01:46] tiam-tiam: constantly - spoken about on this Forum before
[03:13] hEhN-kang [also 03:18, and hEhN alone at 03:51] we've spoken about this word "hEhN" on this Forum before
[03:22] wa: the famous Penang Hokkien "wa" [also 04:55, 05:24]
[05:10] cioh-bi: 石米? - apparently the word for "gravel"? It's not a word I know, I infer the meaning from context
[06:36] banciah (also at 06:38): I vaguely recall a "manciah" = "not yet", "only in a little while"
---
PURE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER
[00:18] support
[00:21] zhuyao? 主要
[00:23] bansan
[00:24] balu
[00:41] lang2
[00:46] yusuanan 預算案
[00:47] budget
[00:54] so
[00:58] so
[01:02] Penang
[01:15] pole-tikut
[01:46] tiam-tiam
[01:52] fanshang?
[01:55] daodi? 到底
[02:12] Mr. Lee
[02:20] architect
[02:24] tender
[02:35] start
[02:40] open tender
[02:51] contractor
[03:13] hEhN-kang
[03:18] hEhN-kang
[03:22] wa
[03:36] shijianbiao 時間表
[03:51] hEhN
[03:59] tiao2 yue1?? 條約??
[04:07] xiaoshi zhongxin 小食中心
[04:19] gongcheng? 工程?
[04:21] toilet
[04:27] car park
[04:35] MPPP e office
[04:40] lingshi? 零食?
[04:55] wa
[04:59] balu
[05:10] cioh-bi 石米
[05:24] pun
[05:24] wa
[05:32] pun?
[05:44] free
[05:49] free e voucher
[06:06] promotion
[06:12] daodi? 到底
[06:21] guocheng 過程
[06:23] pun
[06:29] pun
[06:36] banciah
[06:38] banciah
[06:57] sO-i
[07:01] tansi
[07:06] pun
[07:19] bugaolan 佈告欄
[07:22] yijianxiang 意見箱
[07:27] pole-tikut
---
PS.
I used Mozilla Download Helper to get the mp4 version of the clip on my local disk. And then I used VLC media player to play the mp4-file. VLC media player has the functionality of being able to slow the speed of play, so you can g-e-t t-h-e s--p--e--e--c--h r--e--a--l--y s---l---o---w---e---d d---o---w---n to try and work out what he's saying. It also makes it easier to record the time at which something is said, as things move much more slowly.
Even with the aid of VLC media player, it still took about 6 listenings to compile the above.
Great link! I listened to it over and over again.
It's very interesting to see this sort of person, who apparently speaks English and Mandarin quite well (as well as Hokkien). Very different from my generation, which either spoke English/Hokkien or Mandarin/Hokkien, hardly ever all three (well).
I infer that his English and Mandarin are both quite good from the fact that he borrows equally and naturally from both these languages. I think these are words for which he doesn't know the Hokkien equivalents (or can't think of them quickly enough), and he hence uses either the English or Mandarin equivalents. In contrast, the Malay words he uses are really just completely integrated into his form of Hokkien (as you also said in your original posting). In fact, for these Malay borrowings, using the "real" Hokkien equivalents (or English or Mandarin borrowings) in these spots would be completely awkward.
This is a piece of speech which is just screaming out for transcription by me
. I might do that in the next few months, if I get the energy.There are many "higher register" Hokkien words which I'm completely unfamiliar with. Examples are "gi-guan", "sio-huan", "i-kien", "am-pai" (or "an-pai"). I can guess the meaning of some, like "loh-pio" is probably "to tender". Anyway, they can all be cleared up if I get around to transcribing. I'm sure Mark would do much better than me at understanding this whole passage.
In the meanwhile, I've listed the Malay, English, and Mandarin words that he uses (and also some Hokkien ones of special interest).
First I list them grouped by each of the 4 languages, but - within each group - as they first occur chronologically. Here I include some comments and observations.
The Mandarin list is not complete, as there are some which I can't work out or even make a wild guess at. (And please excuse my ignorance if my guesses for the characters are wrong.) I think the Malay, and English lists are quite complete though.
Then, for convenience, I list these "interesting words" in pure chronological order, but then without comments. This latter order is much easier to check against the actual clip.
GROUPED BY LANGUAGE
Malay
[00:23] bansan: market
[00:24] balu: just recently [also 04:59]
[01:15] pole-tikut: glass-drip-smooth
= Pulau Tikus [also 07:27][05:24] pun: definitely "pun2" here [also 06:23, 06:29, 07:06]
[05:32] pun?: he says "bun2", but it seems to be "pun" from context (which he uses elsewhere)
Interestingly, he uses the above Malay borrowings naturally, but he never says "tapi", always "tansi" [02:45], [07:01].
English
[00:18] support
[00:47] budget
[00:54] so [also at 00:58]; he seems to alternate with ("proper" Hokkien) "sO-i" [06:57]
[01:02] Penang
[02:12] Mr. Lee
[02:20] architect
[02:24] tender
[02:35] start
[02:40] open tender
[02:51] contractor
[04:21] toilet
[04:27] car park
[04:35] MPPP e office
[05:44] free
[05:49] free e voucher
[06:06] promotion
He doesn't say "modern", he says "sin1-khuan2" [00:37].
Mandarin
[00:21] zhu-yao? 主要: is this a borrowing from Mandarin? (Or is it a genuine Hokkien term cu-iau? I can't find it in Douglas or Barclay)
[00:46] yusuanan 預算案 (he also translates this as "budget", perhaps in case the interviewer's Mandarin isn't good enough)
[01:52] fanshang? ??
[01:55] daodi? 到底 [also 06:12]
[03:36] shijianbiao 時間表
[03:59] tiaoyue?? 條約??
[04:07] xiaoshi zhongxin 小食中心
[04:19] gongcheng? 工程?
[04:40] lingshi? 零食?
[06:21] guocheng 過程
[07:19] bugaolan 佈告欄
[07:22] yijianxiang 意見箱
Hokkien
[00:41] lang2: the famous Penang Hokkien "lang2" for "we/us"
[01:46] tiam-tiam: constantly - spoken about on this Forum before
[03:13] hEhN-kang [also 03:18, and hEhN alone at 03:51] we've spoken about this word "hEhN" on this Forum before
[03:22] wa: the famous Penang Hokkien "wa" [also 04:55, 05:24]
[05:10] cioh-bi: 石米? - apparently the word for "gravel"? It's not a word I know, I infer the meaning from context
[06:36] banciah (also at 06:38): I vaguely recall a "manciah" = "not yet", "only in a little while"
---
PURE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER
[00:18] support
[00:21] zhuyao? 主要
[00:23] bansan
[00:24] balu
[00:41] lang2
[00:46] yusuanan 預算案
[00:47] budget
[00:54] so
[00:58] so
[01:02] Penang
[01:15] pole-tikut
[01:46] tiam-tiam
[01:52] fanshang?
[01:55] daodi? 到底
[02:12] Mr. Lee
[02:20] architect
[02:24] tender
[02:35] start
[02:40] open tender
[02:51] contractor
[03:13] hEhN-kang
[03:18] hEhN-kang
[03:22] wa
[03:36] shijianbiao 時間表
[03:51] hEhN
[03:59] tiao2 yue1?? 條約??
[04:07] xiaoshi zhongxin 小食中心
[04:19] gongcheng? 工程?
[04:21] toilet
[04:27] car park
[04:35] MPPP e office
[04:40] lingshi? 零食?
[04:55] wa
[04:59] balu
[05:10] cioh-bi 石米
[05:24] pun
[05:24] wa
[05:32] pun?
[05:44] free
[05:49] free e voucher
[06:06] promotion
[06:12] daodi? 到底
[06:21] guocheng 過程
[06:23] pun
[06:29] pun
[06:36] banciah
[06:38] banciah
[06:57] sO-i
[07:01] tansi
[07:06] pun
[07:19] bugaolan 佈告欄
[07:22] yijianxiang 意見箱
[07:27] pole-tikut
---
PS.
I used Mozilla Download Helper to get the mp4 version of the clip on my local disk. And then I used VLC media player to play the mp4-file. VLC media player has the functionality of being able to slow the speed of play, so you can g-e-t t-h-e s--p--e--e--c--h r--e--a--l--y s---l---o---w---e---d d---o---w---n to try and work out what he's saying. It also makes it easier to record the time at which something is said, as things move much more slowly.
Even with the aid of VLC media player, it still took about 6 listenings to compile the above
.Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Wow! Thanks Sim! I was thinking of doing a transcription myself, but I'm glad you feel up the the task!
Bē sió-hoàn 賣小販 – vo. to sell at a stall, to hawk: bē sió-hoàn ê lâng 賣小販个儂 hawkers
Ì-kiàn = 意見 n. (funny how he switched to Mdn when he talked about the suggestion box though)
An-pâi 安排 – tv. to organise or arrange
Is it 議員 gī-goân, (MP) I wonder? I think Mark or Andrew mentioned this a while back.
Now I am very pleased with my own level of Hokkien, as I can get three of these straight away!SimL wrote:There are many "higher register" Hokkien words which I'm completely unfamiliar with. Examples are "gi-guan", "sio-huan", "i-kien", "am-pai" (or "an-pai"). I can guess the meaning of some, like "loh-pio" is probably "to tender". Anyway, they can all be cleared up if I get around to transcribing. I'm sure Mark would do much better than me at understanding this whole passage.
Bē sió-hoàn 賣小販 – vo. to sell at a stall, to hawk: bē sió-hoàn ê lâng 賣小販个儂 hawkers
Ì-kiàn = 意見 n. (funny how he switched to Mdn when he talked about the suggestion box though)
An-pâi 安排 – tv. to organise or arrange
Is it 議員 gī-goân, (MP) I wonder? I think Mark or Andrew mentioned this a while back.
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Ducking in-and-out quickly, will aim to find time to listen to the entire passage. But in the meantime - yes, 議員 gī-goân is “Member of Parliament”, and I have heard it used among Penangites before.Ah-bin wrote:
Is it 議員 gī-goân, (MP) I wonder?
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Ciah kú bô lâi, àmhō iáu ũ hāu, hókacài.
They still got that in Vietnam: hủ tiếu gõ. (Tiếu is probably a Teochew loan, and cognate with tiâu as in 粿仔條.)Then I only just found out about "tok-tok-mi" - which I guess is the same one. This was in the same podcast as kiEt-la and suiⁿ-kam. John Ong explained the meaning of the name like that it came from the sound of knocking bamboo sticks made by the vendors in former times to draw attention to their food. It must be the same verb, and looks very much as if it is originally an onamatapoeaic word.
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
I haven't posted here for a while, as I've been catching up with entering a lot of the new vocab I have learnt from the podcasts. I had quite a good reception from the last round of questions so i'll share the findings here:
1) Torch/flashlight = chhiú-tiān-hóe 手電火 or just chhiú-tiān 手電
2) Tablemat, place mat (?)
3) screwdriver (I already have hammer and pliers)
4) mahjong – also how to say “to play mahjong”? ma-chiok and phah-ma-chiok!
5) Parcel – is this pau, same as the word for a bun? (yes!)
6) Pitcher, jug = 矸 ‘kan’, often phrased as 「玻璃矸」‘po-lê kan’ (Thanks, Mark)
also koan (not sure of tone or character)
7) Skewer (I guess this will be something with kee/gi in it) = no, it was 籤 chhiam (again, thanks Mark)
8 ） Certificate (tnua?) i got jī 字 as in chhut-sè-jī 出世字 "birth certificate" I would guess that a marriage certificate was a kau-eng-ji or something like that.
9) stain (something to do with la-sum?) = no, I received "jiak" which I took to be "chiah" 蹟 as in trace or print, and also tiok tor which I take to be tióh-thô• 著塗 "get dirt", but not sure if correct or not.
10) Magazine (maybe chap-chi? Or do people just use the English word?)
So that was a really good harvest. Only magazine, table mat and screwdriver are missing! Also there was disagreement over "stain" and "pitcher"
Then here are the latest questions, more about the way to say things than about specific words, I guess:
1) How do you “fill out” a form
2) How do you say “I changed my mind” (I asked this one before here and got piàn-sim 變心)
3) How do you “keep a secret”? a secret is a pì-bít 秘密
4) How do you “lay a table” for a meal?
5) How do you “start a car” or engine,
6) How do you “load up” a car or boat (I think i asked this one before too, so don't worry about itif it's already answered)
7) How do you “go on strike”
8 ) How to you “catch up to” a car, or person ahead of you? I guess it might have something to do with the word hù 赴）
I haven't had any answers to these yet, though!
1) Torch/flashlight = chhiú-tiān-hóe 手電火 or just chhiú-tiān 手電
2) Tablemat, place mat (?)
3) screwdriver (I already have hammer and pliers)
4) mahjong – also how to say “to play mahjong”? ma-chiok and phah-ma-chiok!
5) Parcel – is this pau, same as the word for a bun? (yes!)
6) Pitcher, jug = 矸 ‘kan’, often phrased as 「玻璃矸」‘po-lê kan’ (Thanks, Mark)
also koan (not sure of tone or character)
7) Skewer (I guess this will be something with kee/gi in it) = no, it was 籤 chhiam (again, thanks Mark)
8 ） Certificate (tnua?) i got jī 字 as in chhut-sè-jī 出世字 "birth certificate" I would guess that a marriage certificate was a kau-eng-ji or something like that.
9) stain (something to do with la-sum?) = no, I received "jiak" which I took to be "chiah" 蹟 as in trace or print, and also tiok tor which I take to be tióh-thô• 著塗 "get dirt", but not sure if correct or not.
10) Magazine (maybe chap-chi? Or do people just use the English word?)
So that was a really good harvest. Only magazine, table mat and screwdriver are missing! Also there was disagreement over "stain" and "pitcher"
Then here are the latest questions, more about the way to say things than about specific words, I guess:
1) How do you “fill out” a form
2) How do you say “I changed my mind” (I asked this one before here and got piàn-sim 變心)
3) How do you “keep a secret”? a secret is a pì-bít 秘密
4) How do you “lay a table” for a meal?
5) How do you “start a car” or engine,
6) How do you “load up” a car or boat (I think i asked this one before too, so don't worry about itif it's already answered)
7) How do you “go on strike”
8 ) How to you “catch up to” a car, or person ahead of you? I guess it might have something to do with the word hù 赴）
I haven't had any answers to these yet, though!
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Ah-long has kindly provided answers to the last round through the Penang Hokkien Podcast!
1. 填 (thiân, thiâm)
2. 我改變想法了 (wá kái-piàn siōnn-huat liáu)
3. 共我保牢這秘密 (kā wá pó tiâu tse pì-bìt)
4. 桌頂共伊舒好勢 (toh-téng kā i tshu hó-sè)
5. 開引擎 (khui ián-jín)
6. 物件下予伊滿 (mìh-kiānn hēe hōo i muá)
7. 罷工 (pā-kang)
8. 追頭前兮車、人 (tui thâu-tsêng e tshia / lâng
Does anyone else have any different ways of saying these? Any Baba style ones, perhaps?
1. 填 (thiân, thiâm)
2. 我改變想法了 (wá kái-piàn siōnn-huat liáu)
3. 共我保牢這秘密 (kā wá pó tiâu tse pì-bìt)
4. 桌頂共伊舒好勢 (toh-téng kā i tshu hó-sè)
5. 開引擎 (khui ián-jín)
6. 物件下予伊滿 (mìh-kiānn hēe hōo i muá)
7. 罷工 (pā-kang)
8. 追頭前兮車、人 (tui thâu-tsêng e tshia / lâng
Does anyone else have any different ways of saying these? Any Baba style ones, perhaps?
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Hi Ah-bin,
Only know 3:
1) Torch/flashlight = chhiú-tiān-hóe 手電火 or just chhiú-tiān 手電
The latter.
4) mahjong – also how to say “to play mahjong”? ma-chiok and phah-ma-chiok!
Yes, but "chh-", so aspirated.
9) stain (something to do with la-sum?) = no, I received "jiak" which I took to be "chiah" 蹟
This is fine, but definitely voiced in Penang Hokkien.
I'm VERY pushed for time at the moment, so this is it.
Sim
Only know 3:
1) Torch/flashlight = chhiú-tiān-hóe 手電火 or just chhiú-tiān 手電
The latter.
4) mahjong – also how to say “to play mahjong”? ma-chiok and phah-ma-chiok!
Yes, but "chh-", so aspirated.
9) stain (something to do with la-sum?) = no, I received "jiak" which I took to be "chiah" 蹟
This is fine, but definitely voiced in Penang Hokkien.
I'm VERY pushed for time at the moment, so this is it.
Sim
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
Hi Andrew,AndrewAndrew wrote:To me, suinn-kam is a normal lime, limau nipis in Malay. Kiet-la is a calamansi, limau kasturi in Malay.
Lemons are foreign to this country.
Just getting back to this topic briefly: do you recall a word like "li-móng" for "lemon"? Mark, could you help?
Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.
How do you “start a car” or engine
start a car
cho
tok
chhia
similar to start a fire
cho make
tok = alight
huei = fire
this may be incorrect..someone please correct me if im wrong
sorry i dont know how to type in POJ
start a car
cho
tok
chhia
similar to start a fire
cho make
tok = alight
huei = fire
this may be incorrect..someone please correct me if im wrong
sorry i dont know how to type in POJ