Cantonese originally not Chinese???
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Sum Won
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
Quentin:
Of course the VietNamese don't use it to identify themselves against the Chinese --they use it to define themselves among the other races within their own country. I may not know why they call themselves the Kinh exactly, but you seem to know a significant amount on the issue, so please do tell.
ppk:
-Check your ethnologues, and you'll find that he Kinh are the majority in VietNam instead.
-If the Kinh in China don't correspond to the Kinh in VietNam, what are your theories on who they really are? I'm opened to suggestions...
Of course the VietNamese don't use it to identify themselves against the Chinese --they use it to define themselves among the other races within their own country. I may not know why they call themselves the Kinh exactly, but you seem to know a significant amount on the issue, so please do tell.
ppk:
-Check your ethnologues, and you'll find that he Kinh are the majority in VietNam instead.
-If the Kinh in China don't correspond to the Kinh in VietNam, what are your theories on who they really are? I'm opened to suggestions...
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HKB
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
I might have sent parts of this message twice accidentally, sorry.
Anyways, the Manchurian language is grouped into the family of languages called the Ural-Altaic family. Other languages grouped also in this particular group include Mongolian, all the Turkish languages, and Finnish (in Europe). Unlike Chinese (belonging to the Sino-Tibetan language family), the Ural-Altaic languages possess inflection and largely poly-syllable words. They don't distinguish their words by using pitches and intonations. Cantonese does.
On top of that, the Cantonese PEOPLE could have been...mixed...with initially aboriginal peoples in Canton but you can only go so far as to SUPPOSE that they were indeed mixed, there is as of now NO direct substantiated evidence resulted from well-documented research material that suggest the cantonese are not total Han. Furthermore, your arguement only puts the ethnicity of the Cantonese people in question, not the language itself. Well I gotts go and can't say as much as I'd like to but my last comment is that Cantonese is officially grouped by international linguistic researchers as part of the Sino-Tibetan family (it has always been and always will be), whereas Vietnamese is grouped with the Khmer Family and Japanese is its own family (perhaps related to Korean and the Ural-Altaic in certain ways). I trust these scholars and believe Cantonese to be completely Chinese in origin. p.s,. they..the cantonese use more ancient Han Yu than Mandarin does.
Anyways, the Manchurian language is grouped into the family of languages called the Ural-Altaic family. Other languages grouped also in this particular group include Mongolian, all the Turkish languages, and Finnish (in Europe). Unlike Chinese (belonging to the Sino-Tibetan language family), the Ural-Altaic languages possess inflection and largely poly-syllable words. They don't distinguish their words by using pitches and intonations. Cantonese does.
On top of that, the Cantonese PEOPLE could have been...mixed...with initially aboriginal peoples in Canton but you can only go so far as to SUPPOSE that they were indeed mixed, there is as of now NO direct substantiated evidence resulted from well-documented research material that suggest the cantonese are not total Han. Furthermore, your arguement only puts the ethnicity of the Cantonese people in question, not the language itself. Well I gotts go and can't say as much as I'd like to but my last comment is that Cantonese is officially grouped by international linguistic researchers as part of the Sino-Tibetan family (it has always been and always will be), whereas Vietnamese is grouped with the Khmer Family and Japanese is its own family (perhaps related to Korean and the Ural-Altaic in certain ways). I trust these scholars and believe Cantonese to be completely Chinese in origin. p.s,. they..the cantonese use more ancient Han Yu than Mandarin does.
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UBB
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
I am a Cantonese boy from Hong Kong and I totally consider myself to be completely Chinese. How DARE you say that Cantonese merely have Chinese blood in them and that "we" should seek independence?! This is ridiculous! After all the wars we cantonese fought for China?! TOOOOOISTED!!
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UBB
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
the above message was written in response to Sum Won's 04-16-2002 message.
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Sum Won
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
HKB:
All of us are already aware of the fact that Cantonese is closest to Tang dynasty Chinese. However, there is also no substantial that the entire race of the aborigines were wiped out. Also, there is some evidence that some words transferred over from the aborigines to the Chinese.
Obviously, no one really figured out the purpose of this thread yet...
All of us are already aware of the fact that Cantonese is closest to Tang dynasty Chinese. However, there is also no substantial that the entire race of the aborigines were wiped out. Also, there is some evidence that some words transferred over from the aborigines to the Chinese.
Obviously, no one really figured out the purpose of this thread yet...
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KP
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
What is the purpose of this thread?
I would assume the purpose is for people to open their eyes to the past cultures of the Yue people in that area? Or to help present-day Cantonese from just falling into a extremely general classification as being called "Chinese"?
What I wonder is how were those aborigines in the Guangzhou/Guangxi area treated compared to those in the North Vietnam region. All were subdued at the same time, but for some reason or another, only those in Northern Vietnam gained independence 1000 years later.
I would assume the purpose is for people to open their eyes to the past cultures of the Yue people in that area? Or to help present-day Cantonese from just falling into a extremely general classification as being called "Chinese"?
What I wonder is how were those aborigines in the Guangzhou/Guangxi area treated compared to those in the North Vietnam region. All were subdued at the same time, but for some reason or another, only those in Northern Vietnam gained independence 1000 years later.
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HKB
Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???
Anthony...um...are you...ok? You've been yelling all over the place:)