1. nah, u cant say things like 'all cantonese are afraid of looking back' based on the answers to this thread. u are challenging their integrity.
2. u must ask them which side they choose to pick in the beginning. if my parents are americans and i am born in malaysia, but i decide to take up, say, american citizenship like my parents, then it would be normal for malaysian govt to think twice about accepting me when american govt cast me out of their country. dun forget, macau was ceded to portuguese(unlike hong kong which was 'leased' for 99yrs) so it was portuguese land, they are portuguese by birth. it was only recently that portuguese decided to give it back to china.
4. straight to the point please. i am not here for a guessing game.
5. my definitions are pretty clear. they apply to all present cantonese. all definition have its limit, eg, a time frame or restricted a certain region. my definition can probably apply for the past 2000yrs(but perhaps not further) but i prefer applying it to present. what u brought up was some very special cases and special cases dont apply to the general chinese/cantonese population.
yeah, forced oppression wasnt right, but thats in our time. in the past, it was the norm. look around the world, its the same everywhere, war, slavery, destruction of culture, europe, middle east, asia. so wad are u gonna do? take a time machine so u can go back and tell them wad to do and wad not to do? sounds to me like u are trying to play god. even if it wasnt right from our point of view, we have to accept it cos that was what made us we are today. by changing history u might not even exist today. we learn history to understand the past, not to change the past. we learn history to know how things happened, not how things 'should' happen. it may help us to shape the future, but definitely not a rigid law to tell others wad to do. everyone has their own interpretation of history, and u cant really tell who's right or wrong. for the indians, asking for independence from britain is being patroitic or nationalistic, but to the brits, its treason and betrayal.
it is normal for chinese to defend china, especially in the gray zones, isnt it? wad do u expect? probably u considered americans admiring and siding other countries or japanese admiring and siding other countries, instead of their own, is a logical action?
too bad, as i have said, ancient chinese identify themselves with the chinese culture, not mongolian. applies to all ancient people too. unless they accept the culture, they are different people. thats why the mongols were driven out after 90+ yrs. the chinese dont identify with them. for the manchus, the noble accepted chinese culture and the chinese in return, accepted them. manchurian emperors usually speaks 3 languages, manchurian, from their fathers, mongolian, from their mothers, and mandarin, from the people they rule. some even speaks tibetian. the mongols forced the chinese to learn mongolian if they were to bcome court officials. unlike mongols who wanted to transform china into a huge grazing ground, the manchus respected the agriculture traditions the chinese have. unlike mongols who tried to destroy the chinese culture, the manchus promotes education based on chinese philosophy. unlike mongols who treated the chinese as the lowest caste in th society, manchurian treated the chinese more fairly, almost equals. chinese can take up the highest post in court, and they speak mandarin in court. imperial laws were announced in both manchurian and mandarin.
for the japanese, its the same. u seem to ignore the fact that the japs are more cruel than any foreign invaders in chinese history. in annexed territories they taught japanese instead of chinese, loyalty to the japanese tenno instead of chinese govt. what were the promises the japs gave? to 'liberate' the people of asia from the hands of western imperialism and respect their own sovernigty and nationality. but in fact? turned out to be a pack of lies. my family need not hide their belongings when westerners ruled our land, my mother and aunties neednt go into hiding when westerners ruled our land. when the japs came, what they looted in a year is more than what the westerners exploited in 10 years. do u think the chinese, or the whole world, would agree to that? their downfall is inevitable. of course the chinese are happy that this(japanese assimilation) didnt happen.
come back to the cantonese problem, u will ask, then why the chinese rejected assimilation but forced the ancient people in canton into it? simple, first, by the end of 19th century, nationalism and concept of a 'country' or a 'nation', are already well established, but in ancient time it wasnt. secondly, in terms of patterns of cultural assimilation, a higher/more advanced culture will usually not agree into assimilation with a relatively lower/backward culture, but it will happen the other way round. japan, mongol, manchus imported much from china, not the other way round. culturally the chinese will not accept them but they will willingly accept the chinese. thirdly, the people with less population will be assimilated into the one with a bigger population. not happy with it? too bad thats how things evolved. its a natural trend and thats what i learned about assimilation in history.
about ur question, i considered it a very special case but still i will answer it in a 'special case' fashion.
1. a family, originally caucasians, living in hk, canton, china for generations, speaks cantonese and accepted chinese cultures, are of course cantonese in the end. under a perfect situation, racially, they would have married chinese(unless they commited incest mong family members) and they will have at least 50% chinese blood in them after a few generations. plus they took up chinese culture and citizenship. in fact, they fit most of my requirements.
2. they are cantonese, cos in the very beginning u already brand them as cantonese. fits at least one of my requirements. unless u are talking about a chinese family living in a non-oriental country, then it would be hard to define whether they are cantonese or other dialects.
conclusion, both cantonese.