Some more videoclips

[Yeleixingfeng]

Sorry to rewind the topic. Hehe.

Hi, Sim. Much remains unspoken in the Hoklosphere in regards to this, namely the "place" of women in Hoklo society.

I think, it is this dedication that makes filial piety one of the characterising aspects of Chinese. (Of course, not only the Chinese are filial; I am not stereotyping, neither being narcissistically ignorant of how other cultures highlight filial piety.)

The Chinese traditional mindset holds that the mother should be at home, locked, while the father works, out in the paddy field. I think it's purely a coincidence, but a child would naturally feel indebted, and take care of both of them. Since that is the social norm then, the mother wouldn't complain, which I think, further worsens the guilt.

Nowadays however, women come up for rights; they demand for work opportunities, and freedom. I mean, it's totally fine, they are humans after all. It is just, we as males are stubbornly unwilling to take over their job as the house-regulator. Therefore, parents fight over money, or who to do the chores - there is no clear line as to who to do what. I'm sure parents nowadays shout at each other, like gods hammering dogs, more regularly than the previous generations. I mean, how do you expect the next generation to feel anything when both of their parents are obviously only half-hearted in managing this family - they both want money.

That is why I don't see women at home as being wrong. I actually hope I could get a wife who likes to be at home and do all the chores, and says nothing about it. It implants a firm image that your parents are willing to do anything for you - who wouldn't be propelled to repay this 'irrepayable' debt? (See how the ancients like to stress that the kindness (恩) of their parents are so immense that one can never fully repay them. You don't see anyone saying that anymore.) Besides, how can women being at home be shameful? Children are always closer to their mother, and considering they are ultimately who you would be spending the last years of your life with (males statistically die first >.<), I would consider it a bliss that you are with someone who loves you everyday.

Of course, not every woman values love from child over financial assurance. It all depends on the horoscopes. Then again, I am just crapping here in the best intentions of the child's mental growth. ^^

*The ultimate digression from Hokkien. Wakakakakaka.*

[SimL]

Hi Yeleixingfeng,

Nice to see you back here, after your brief pause.

I am a "pro-feminist", so I feel that women should have the right to do whatever they want to, without any societal expectations about what is "more appropriate" or "less appropriate", just because they happen to be women. I'm a supporter of the model where both men and women do whatever fulfills them most. If that's looking after kids in the home then either sex should be free to do that, and if it's going out and making a career in the rough world outside, then either sex should be free to do that too. And if it's a mix, that might be good too: 2 days home and 3 days work for each partner, and the children can go to a creche (or their grandparents) on the day that both parents are working.

But yes, I agree that men (in general) don't like to look after a home (but is that historical "brainwashing", or is it genetic???). My own home is a fine(?) example of that - piles of paper and books falling over everywhere .

[amhoanna]

I agree with both of U.

[amhoanna]

【闽南语节目】（本地话新闻）2011.08.16+漳州第一等（第178集）
http://www.56.com/u32/v_NjIzODM4Mzc.html

Ciangciu hia ẻ sinbủn. Ilảng kóng ẻ Họ'ló oẹ ka' Tải'oản oẹ be'siảng be'siảng, goá thiaⁿ liáu khinkhin sangsang, iủkỉ sĩ he hiạntiủⁿ kìciá (cabó· ·ẻ). Siàuliản cúpo ũ tangsỉ'á bẽsu sĩ te' "kọ· Họ'ló oẹ'im kóng Hoảgứ", ṃ ko' EARNING MONEY i soa' kóng cò "thàn lui"!!

[niuc]

【闽南语节目】（本地话新闻）2011.08.16+漳州第一等（第178集）
http://www.56.com/u32/v_NjIzODM4Mzc.html

Oh so this is Ciangciu Hokkien! Thanks! I did hear some TWs on tv speaking similar accent but much easier to understand. However, I have more difficulties to understand the lady reporter than the male presenter.

Is this the "standard" Ciangciu variant? I notice certain words sound like Teochew, e.g. many -ng instead of -n, e.g. huáng-gìng instead of huán-ìng 反應, gíng-á instead of gín-á. Also certain tones are different from what I commonly hear e.g. 手機 with 機 sounds like kī (tone 7 instead of 1, and not as sandhi). I think both use many Mandarin terms (unless those are daily terms in Ciangciu?) e.g. jú-kó tam-sim-ê-uā　如果擔心的話!

[SimL]

【闽南语节目】（本地话新闻）2011.08.16+漳州第一等（第178集）
http://www.56.com/u32/v_NjIzODM4Mzc.html

Stunning, thanks for finding and posting this.

After my total non-comprehension of cuanciu (I had found and posted a link here to some cuanciu news clip a while back), I had hung on to the idea that ciangciu would probably be very much more understandable for me - due of course to the oft-repeated assertion that Penang Hokkien has a very strong ciangciu base. Well, that illusion is now shattered to smithereens: my comprehension of the cuanciu clip was perhaps 0.5%, my comprehension of the ciangciu one was perhaps 0.7%!

[amhoanna]

Good questions. We'll have to check with Lim Kianhui some time to see where he "places" the dialect(s) in the broadcast. I'm pretty sure there's variation w/i Ciangciu as well. Last yr when I swung by Lionghai 龍海, I remember the Hoklo there sounding a lot more like Mainstream TWnese than this. Still -- I'm surprised that Sim couldn't understand more than he did!

I agree w/ Niuc, there are some Teochew-sounding aspects in the Hoklo in the video. Also, their citation T1 was a rising tone, if I remember it right. I've seen that rising T1 in academic surveys, but never heard it till this video.

On a bus ride from Coanciu to Soaⁿboe a few yrs ago, as we were crossing the province line, I remember the bus driver listening to a broadcast in a dialect that I couldn't place as Teochew or Banlamese. I think it would be this same dialect.

The cúpo here speaks heavily Mandurbated Hoklo! Mandurbated to the point where I don't see any pt in holding on to this kind of Hoklo, no offense intended. On Google+, some TWnese were amazed at the Mandarinization and asked whether it was Hokkienese Hoklo that had Mandarinized, or TWnese Hoklo that had split off and gone wild.

I say the basic difference is that, in China, kanji hasn't filed for a divorce from Hoklo, so Mandarin words and structures are borrowed into Hoklo wholesale as Literary Chinese and thus "latent Hoklo".

In TW, kanji and Hoklo have divorced each other once and for all. This is why if TWnese wanted to write "Sĩ cin ·ẻ", they would write "係金ㄟ". They can't use 是 and 真 b/c these represent the Mandarin sounds shi and zhen exclusively. On the plus side, though, this slows down the Mandurbation of TWnese Hoklo.

On the plus side, I kind of like the lady field reporter's Hoklo, there's something about it that suggests that she speaks Hoklo every day with the people around her, unlike typical Hoklo newscasters in TW and the cúpo here. In fact the cúpo here (and lots of Hoklo newscasters in TW) carry their Mandarin voice styling over to their Hoklo -- notice how sentence final high tones have a tendency to get pushed higher, an essential styling of TWnese (and Hokkienese?) Mando-casters.