Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih8

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by xng » Sat May 26, 2012 11:19 am

SimL wrote:
xng wrote:Chia and Hia are modern taiwanese invention based on the two original characters 之 (this) and 許 (that).
這遐 are all borrowed characters for their sound. 彼 is borrowed character for the meaning

In south east asia, we use

之爿 - Ci Pin
許爿 - Hi Pin
My maternal grandparents (grandfather from Hui-uaN, grandmother from Amoy) both only said "cia" and "hia". They were both born in China, came directly from China to Malaya in their teens. I would imagine that their language use was then very little "contaminated" by Taiwanese Hokkien, Penang Baba Hokkien, Teochew, Malay, English, Tamil, etc. They would have spoken as pure a form of Hokkien as any purist might demand.

But they said "cia" and "hia". Not only did they say "cia" and "hia", but this was the most common way for them to say "here" and "there". They might have said "cit piəng" and "hi(t) piəng" for variety (and perhaps with a slight difference in meaning), but "cia" and "hia" were the most common terms. I never heard them say "ci pin" or "hi pin". [Note, I don't say "No Hokkiens in S.E. Asia say this", I only say that I have never heard my grandparents say this. I stick to just stating what I know, instead of declaring that my version / view of the world is valid for everyone else.]

.

Just because your grandparents say it doesn't mean that the average malaysian heard or use it. It goes to show what an idiot you are. I am not saying it is impossible as I don't know all the different dialect variations and I only hear it in Taiwanese serials. You have trouble understanding this simple logic ?

I have spoken hokkien to many penangites to kl to singapore and none of them speak 'hia, cia' but 'ci/cit pin' and hi/hit pin. Try speaking hia/cia to the average hokkien in Msia and see whether they understand you (disclaimer: provided they don't watch taiwanese serials).

So who is the arrogant guy here who is in amsterdam most of his life and trying to prove he hears more malaysian/singapore hokkien than me who has been in these 2 countries more years than you ? The most common terms in msia/singapore are 'ci/cit pin' and not 'cia'.

It is just like if somebody say 'sa' in mandarin instead of 'shen muo' in malaysia, doesn't mean the average msian use it. Comprende ?

I only posted here because people didn't give any reliable correct answer to the first post. (especially from a dumbass such as you who didn't give any original characters)

Your first 2 posts to me, smell of a foul mouth uncivilised person rather than the gentlemen that I knew earlier. If you don't agree you can argue, but to call people names is so lowly (just like Ah Bin)
Do you want to turn this into a name calling threads ?
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by SimL » Sat May 26, 2012 12:13 pm

xng wrote: Just because your grandparents say it doesn't mean that the average malaysian heard or use it. It goes to show what an idiot you are. I am not saying it is impossible as I don't know all the different dialect variations and I only hear it in Taiwanese serials. You have trouble understanding this simple logic ?
It's you who have difficulty understanding simple logic. I take the trouble to point out that it's my grandparents usage, I even take the trouble to point out that the usage you claim might be known in S.E. Asia. In contrast, in your initial post, YOU just claim the opposite, not acknowledgeing that other people's usage could be possible.

Everyone else here makes their statements with "AFAIK", "IIRC", "To the best of my knowledge", etc. You, in contrast just declare: "THIS IS SO", "IT'S LIKE THIS", "EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG". And, the worse thing about it (as I have already mentioned), is that you simply do not acknowledge when someone points out that what you've said is incorrect. If you did, it would be fine. Everyone makes mistakes, has ideas which are slightly inaccurate. But they are open to revising their ideas, unlike you.
xng wrote:So who is the arrogant guy here who is in amsterdam most of his life and trying to prove he hears more malaysian/singapore hokkien than me who has been in these 2 countries more years than you ?
Please quote one single instance where I have ever claimed this. This is so patently untrue that only an idiot would claim that I even tried to suggest this, let alone claim it. On the contrary, so many of my posting here start with "my Hokkien is very limited", "my Hokkien vocabulary is that of a 14 y.o. English-educated boy", "I left Malaysia 40 years ago, and usage may have changed", etc.
xng wrote:The most common terms in msia/singapore are 'ci/cit pin' and not 'cia'.
Show me the quote where I say otherwise. I restricted myself solely to what my grandparents said.
xng wrote:Your first 2 posts to me, smell of a foul mouth uncivilised person rather than the gentlemen that I knew earlier. If you don't agree you can argue, but to call people names is so lowly (just like Ah Bin)
Do you want to turn this into a name calling threads ?
The person you perceived as "the gentleman I knew earlier" was purely someone who lost patience at the declarative tone that I constantly heard from you.

If you look at the regulars here, we have had years of friendly, respectful discussion, without any conflict, even when opinions differ widely. There are now 2 regulars here who have lost their patience and decided just to be blunt, and these two regulars have never felt any need to respond like this to anyone else in the Forum. So, look to your own behaviour as a reason for our "rudeness" :mrgreen:.

For example, I find it painful and vaguely embarassing that you have no idea about this particular posting:
Mark Yong wrote:
FutureSpy wrote:
Maybe I should just shut up and learn, even if it's awkward?
Oh, no, keep talking. :) That’s what we are all here for, to share our thoughts and insights.

We only have one (1) unspoken rule in this Forum:
“Do not rudely make assertions (to others’ discredit) as if they are gospel truth, especially if they can clearly be proven to be nonsense.” :mrgreen:
Even someone as new as FutureSpy worked out who this referred to :shock:.
Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by Ah-bin » Sat May 26, 2012 12:32 pm

Well, SimL beat me to it, but I'm going to post anyway.....

xng wrote:
Chia and Hia are modern taiwanese invention based on the two original characters 之 (this) and 許 (that).
這遐 are all borrowed characters for their sound. 彼 is borrowed character for the meaning
then SimL wrote a rejoinder:
My maternal grandparents (grandfather from Hui-uaN, grandmother from Amoy) both only said "cia" and "hia". They were both born in China, came directly from China to Malaya in their teens. I
Then xng wrote:
Just because your grandparents say it doesn't mean that the average malaysian heard or use it. It goes to show what an idiot you are. I am not saying it is impossible as I don't know all the different dialect variations and I only hear it in Taiwanese serials. You have trouble understanding this simple logic ?
So xng declares it's modern Taiwanese usage and SimL has heard his Amoy/Mainland grandparents use it, thus casting doubt on whether it is in fact "a modern Taiwanese invention". THEN xng comes back with the question of whether the average Malaysian uses chia or hia or not - a different subject altogether! Plus he has got written and spoken language mixed up again, I think it's quite hard for him to understand that characters are just a way to write speech, and that spoken words do not derive ultimately from written characters, but from earlier spoken forms!

For everyone new to the forum, this guy xng is a good source of entertainment who pops up every now and again. He's "Emperor" on another forum. This is probably why he can't cope with people holding dissenting opinions and flies into a rage at the slightest sniff of disagreement.

Just look back through all the stuff he has written before, and enjoy watching him get angry when someone dares to pull out some evidence that contradicts his assertions. Then watch him slink back to his own little empire when everyone else points out he has been making things up, twisting arguments, or misquoting evidence. We have a good search function on the forum to make it convenient to do so. Be quick, before he edits his posts!!!!!
Last edited by Ah-bin on Sat May 26, 2012 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ah-bin
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by Ah-bin » Sat May 26, 2012 12:41 pm

This always makes me laugh too:

xng:
but to call people names is so lowly (just like Ah Bin)
Do you want to turn this into a name calling threads ?
I challenged him ages ago to find a place where I called him a name, and he couldn't do it, so he ignored it.

I love Emperor xng. I want to be one of his imperial eunuchs. Honest.
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by niuc » Mon May 28, 2012 7:43 am

xng wrote: It goes to show what an idiot you are.
My goodness! It goes to show what an idiot Xng is!!! :evil:
AndrewAndrew
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am

Re: Appropriated hanji for che/chiah--e5/chia/chit/chiah-nih

Post by AndrewAndrew » Mon May 28, 2012 9:47 pm

My goodness, this is hilarious. Xng, I remember you once saying you had never heard of Barclay (who wrote the 1923 supplement to the Rev. Carstairs Douglas's great dictionary of the Amoy dialect). I don't know if you have heard of Douglas, who was mainly based in Amoy and Chiangchiu (unlike Barclay, who was based in Taiwan). Anyway, Douglas' 1873 dictionary gives:
chia (R. ché), here. tī-chia, id. àn-chia, this way; by this road. tùi-chia, id. ōe-kò'-tit-chia, bōe-kò'-tit-hia, able to attend to one place, but not to the other.

hia [R. pí, that, those, there], there. tī-hia, id. hia-ê, those.
So whatever chia and hia are, they are definitely not "modern Taiwanese inventions"!
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