tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Aurelio

tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Aurelio »

Hi everybody!

I read the la la li tam pong thread ... so I wonder about something simliar: What is it about the tin o o song - everbody knows it from childhood, at least in Malaysia. It has rather simple lyrics, almost like a nursery rhyme, but unlike English nursery rhymes, you can actually find this one on Karaoke CDs for adults, right next to "nan-ban e ai-lin" (hehehe) (I do actually have two versions, the 2nd one being rapped: A gong khi McDonah etc., well anyway). So what's the story - does this exist in Taiwan, too, how about on the mainland?

Regards,
Aurelio
Eng Wai

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Eng Wai »

It should be tin o o, beih lok ho. In mandarin, tian1 hei 1 hei1, yao4 xia4 yu3.

There is something quite faded in my memory that perhaps could provide some hints.

I think, there was a child singer called ban1 ban1 from Taiwan. His songs were famous in Hokkien world. If I were not wrong, tin o o is one of the songs. After 10 or 20 years, a young female singer, stephanie sun yan zi from Singapore sang the classic pop song using tin o o ryhme as the starting lyrics. So the ryhme is famous again.

My first part of explanation could be wrong as I can't remember properly. I was very small then.

Eng Wai
Sim

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Sim »

Hi Aurelio,

Nice to see you again here. I must have had a deprived childhood, as I don't know this song either...

Cheers,
Sim.
Eng Wai

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Eng Wai »

I have one question for Hokkien songs. What accent do they use??

For example, "ai pia ka eih ia" (you have to fight to win), I think the Hokkien is the Hokkien we can understand. Did the singer use chiang chiu accent to sing it or quan zhou accent to sing it, or Amoy? Or is it because it is famous so everyone, including the weird Penang Hokkien speakers can understand?

Eng Wai
Eng Wai

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Eng Wai »

Sorry, the name of the singer suddenly flashes in my mind. The name of the child singer is Xiao3 Bing1 Bing1, not the ban1 ban1 or whatever.

And for the tin (sky), do you pronounce the N? I pronounce it as Ti, like T.

Eng Wai
Aurelio

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Aurelio »

Hi, Eng Wai!

I apologize for my terrible transcription (eleven o' clock at night after a conference ;-) ) Yes, it should be ti" with a nasalized N (just like the ban in 难忘的爱人 shoud have been bang and not ban, sorry).

Just for the fun of it, here are the whole lyrics:

天烏烏

天烏烏-BE’落雨-阿公仔GIÂ鋤頭BE’GUD芋
GUD-啊-GUD, GUD-啊-GUD, GUD-着一尾旋留鼓
咿-呀-嘿-嘟-真正趣味。
天烏烏-BE’落雨-阿公仔GIÂ鋤頭BE’GUD芋
GUD-啊-GUD, GUD-啊-GUD, GUD-着一尾旋留鼓
咿-呀-嘿-嘟-真正趣味。
阿公仔BE’煮鹹,阿媽仔BE’煮JIA(n)
兩E相拍LONG破鼎, 咿啊嘿嘟隆咚嘁咚嗆,
哇哈哈,哇哈哈

Regards,
Aurelio

[%sig%]
Sim

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Sim »

Eng Wai,

"sky" is pronounced (as you probably know) with a nasalized "-i-". That is to say, it sounds different from "ti" (no "n" at all) and "tin" (a full "n").

It's sort of half-way between them. It can be spelled "ti~" or "ti*". In the informal Malaysian spelling, you can sometimes see it spelled "tni". This shows that it is neither "ti" nor "tin", but somewhere in between.

And actually, you should spell the word "sky" with a "th". The "h" indicates that you aspirate it. "thi~" means "sky", but "ti~" means "sweet". [Just like "pi" means "to compare" whereas "phi" means "a crust". Or "ki" means "to point" whereas "khi" means "to ascend". ]

I encourage you to try to learn Church Romanization. It's not difficult, and is really a very well designed method of spelling Hokkien.

Cheers,
Sim.

[%sig%]
Eng Wai

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by Eng Wai »

Spot on, I pronounce those words exactly like how you (Sim) describe. I shall learn church romanisation sooon... (my romanisation will still be my own version unless specifically stated :) )

About the thni o o stuff, I tried to search on the internet with no luck. Xiao bin1 bin1 is probably not the one who popularised the ryhme. I hope someone else can tell us the whole background story. Anyway, the child star I mentioned is xiao BIN1 BIN1 (not bing1), the BIN consists of 2 mu4 (wood) and 3 strokes? 彬。( not sure if you could read this).

Do we have any taiwanese readers in this forum who can refer to?

Eng Wai
casey

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by casey »

There are many varieties in this traditional rhyme, this is just one of them (I'm sorry that I can only post it in simplified Chinese characters):

天乌乌,要下雨,榉锄头,巡水路。
thi*1 O1 O1, beh4 loh8 hO7, giah8 ti1 thau5, sun5 cui2 lO7,

遇着海龙王,在娶某。
tu2 tio8 hai2 liOng5(leng5) Ong5, teh8(leh8) chua7 bO2,

龟担灯,寻(虫边,蟹)拍鼓,
ku1 ta*1 ting1, cim5 pha4 kO2,

田婴(蜻蜓)扛轿嫌艰苦,
chan5 yi*1 kng1 kio7 hiam5 kan1 khO2,

水鸡榉旗目吐吐。
cui2 kue1 giah8 ki5 bak8 thO2 thO2.

(or
水鸡吹吹(first 吹 is a verb, second one is a noun, 喇叭trumpet)大腹肚
cui2 kue1 pun5 che1 tua7 pak4 tO2.)

Irrigation of the field is always an important operation to the farmer. In the old days, when modern irrigation technology was not available, the farmer depended very much on raining. So when the sky was dark, knowing that it was going to rain, the farmer would bring out his 'changkol' (I think this is a Malay word for 锄头. There is no equivalent word in English because in the west, a spade is used.), the farmer would bring out his changkol to make sure that the water ways are properly cleared so that his field would be properly irrigated by the rain water.

Out of people's immagination, the wedding scene of of the Dragon King, the God who controlled raining, was vividly described in this children's rhyme.

The version quoted by Aurelio is a modified version to suit current taste, not the traditional ones.

P.S.:
I think it's not too late for me to wish everybody a Happy New Year. (Btwn solar and lunar new years, it's always new year time, right?)
It has been a long time since my last visit here. Glad to know that all old friends are well and still active, and also happy to see many more new friends joining the forum. Keep it up, guys!
hong

Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...

Post by hong »

Yes,Casey is right but she didn't know that aurelio's version was a new version written in Taiwan.In a web page I gave chinese.pku.......=5408 .that is mentioned the writer's name.
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