Hokkien and Indonesia 'Wuxia' novels

[AndrewAndrew]

The -u sounds are attested by Douglas in Tang-oann and villages on Amoy island, so you don't need to go as far as Cuanciu.

[Ah-bin]

Yes, I should have put that in as well, but I wonder why the -u developed in the first place. Were the people in these areas approximating -y the best way they could, whereas others approximated it with -i? I am just speculating until i find out more.

Then again.....
The prevalence of the -u in the earliest areas of out-migration from Fukien (such as Hainan and Lui-chiu) and overseas in sixteenth century Manila and the base language of the Babas would suggest that -u was much more common in the past than it is now!

[AndrewAndrew]

Why does -u have to have developed from either -i or -y rather than e.g. vice versa? The MC final was -io / -jo apparently.

[Ah-bin]

Ah, that makes perfect sense then. I should have looked that up to start with.

[amhoanna]

-ng and -iⁿ in general seem to have some kind of exchange program going on. Didn't someone here come across a dialect of Hoklo recently that had -ng instead of -iⁿ, e.g. tng for sweet, hn̄g for ear, etc.?

Seems likely that -uiⁿ existed in Coânciu dialects during the "making of Amoy". Isn't 間 kuiⁿ in modern central Coânciu? And isn't 關 kuiⁿ in modern Amoy and the Amoy dialect of Old Tâi'ápak 台北?

There are lú/tū people on TW and some of the Pescadores. I can't recall ever meeting one myself, but some people I knew went to the Pescadores and the local people asked them if they wanted to "cia̍h hû". Don't know if they say mûi/nūi/pūiⁿ though. That would be pretty crazy. Seems as likely as not that that combo was "Born in Penang and Medan". More power to that.

Also what do the Proto-閩 reconstructions have for -y/-u/-i? I'm guessing it was back unrounded -y. The evidence points to a shift from -y to -i and -u. The fact that -i and -u exist in all dialects of Hoklo, etc. Also just that high back unrounded vowels are kind of rare in human language. Also that -i and -u "flank" -y: so some people fronted it, others rounded it, etc. If it was really -u or -i to start, though... Well, stranger things do happen.

[xng]

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Mind telling me which country you're originally from ?

[amhoanna]

Mind telling me which country you're originally from ?

Well, here's a hint: you watch a lot of our TV serials.

[niuc]

Thanks, Ah-bin, for correction about Gilan and valuable informations including interesting origin of NZ English.

About j- initial, one of my aunt used it instead of common l- (or d-, or in between) in Bagansiapiapi. As a child, I used to wonder why she pronounced it like that.

It sounds very logical to an amateur like me that E-mng/Amoy variant is a "reduction" or "common denominator" of Cuânciu and Ciangciu variants. Although -y in Cuanciu is usually -i in E-mng, it seems that some are -u, e.g. 師, 思 su, 書 cu (also in Ciangciu?) -> Cuânciu/Tâng-uaⁿ sy, cy.

Amhoanna, I agree with your explanation about -y. How about -er (ə)?

間 is kaiⁿ in Tâng-uaⁿ/Bagansiapiapi (kaiⁿ, king, kan). My Teochew friend told me that some TC variant has it as koiⁿ.

Beside 關 kuiⁿ, I only remember uiⁿ (ui*1, to fiddle a jī-ôr 二胡 or violin) as the only -uiⁿ in my variant (not including múi, núi etc).

[amhoanna]

Amhoanna, I agree with your explanation about -y. How about -er (ə)?

間 is kaiⁿ in Tâng-uaⁿ/Bagansiapiapi (kaiⁿ, king, kan). My Teochew friend told me that some TC variant has it as koiⁿ.

/ə/ might be trickier business, but I'm guessing the sound changes went on in lockstep. The Coânciu vowel system is probably closest to the "proto-Hoklo" system. As a historical thing, I get the feeling that maybe Coânciu is an "older" form of Hoklo, whereas Ciangciu Hoklo got its start in the Tn̂g era from a Coânciu base, with a mass infusion of Northern hoanná-fighters ... as well as hoanná converting to Hàn identities en masse.

I think you're right about the TC. When I went to Soaⁿthâu, the mototaxista didn't understand me when I said "hit3 keng33", but he understood right away when I said "hit3 kaiⁿ22".

[Coh Hiangswe]

Hi everyone. It's a long and nice explanation. Open my eyes BIG TIME.

If you are interesting of reading one of those translation novel I was talking about, here's the link: http://kangzusi.com/Silat_Mandarin_Full.htm

it contains every bukiap translations known to man!