Translations

Discussions on the Hakka dialects.
Thomas Chin

Translations

Postby Thomas Chin » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:53 pm

In my Bao'an variant:

ought: /oi5/ Image or /jin5 koi1/ Image or /jin5 koi1 oi5/ Image

body: /won2 sin1/ Image. Literary reading for the first char is fun2, colloquial reading wun2 (turbid) and won2 (entire). In my variant /won2 sin2/ means (1) the body (2) the whole body. Vu sin could be a variant??

back: /poi5 long2/ Image

spider: /la2 k'ia2/ Image, spider's web: /la2 k'ia2 miong3/ Image

enter: /lok8/ Image

son: /lai5 tsu1/ Image. I do not use /lai5 tsai3/, but I suppose that would be Image

baby: /o1 nga2/ Image or /o1 nga2 tsai3/ Image

/ngia3 jong3/ Image

/an2 jong3/ Image but these are area-dependent, e.g. we use /an2 nung3/ Image instead

fashionable /hin1/ Image (same as Cantonese)

but: /t'an3 he5/ Image, or same as mandarin /put7 ko5/

logical: /hap8 li1/ Image

want: /oi5/ Image


I'll post more translations later...

Thomas Chin

Re: Translations

Postby Thomas Chin » Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:31 am

Some more translations:

/jin5 sin2/ [img][img]http://www.chineselanguage.org/cgi-bin/text.cgi?61C9;627F[/img] = promise

/kui1 ki3/ Image = rule; regulation

/li1 ju2/ Image or /jen2 ku5/ Image = reason

/ts'o5/ Image = mistake; wrong

/t'en5 siu3/ Image = to help

/an2/ or /an5/ Image/Image = very (borrowed char)

/t'i3 ts'at8/ Image or /wong2 ts'at8/ Image = cockroach

/ken1/ Image = to follow

/t'en2/ Image = to follow

/piang5/ Image = hide

/k'ong3/ Image = hide

/lui2/ Image = money

/moi2/ Image = porridge

/min2 tsau1 ngit7/ Image or /t'en1 kong1 ngit7/ Image = tomorrow

/sak7/ Image = side

/tso3 sak7/ Image or /tso3 siu3 sak7/ Image = left side

/kiak7/ Image/Image = fast (I've seen them both being used, don't know which one is correct.

/ts'a1/ Image = to carry with hand

/sen1 ts'i5/ Image = fun

/pit7/ Image = crack, break

/ts'ut8/ Image = rub, erase (with eraser)

/t'ak7/ Image = to tie

/sung3/ Image = push


more later ...

[%sig%]

FM Liew

Re: Translations

Postby FM Liew » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:56 am

Thomas,
/lok8/ is not enter. It suppose to be descend( coming down or fall ).

Enter, in my 'Taibo Hak' is: yip or yip-ki.

Thomas Chin

Re: Translations

Postby Thomas Chin » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:23 am

Hi,

It depends on the Hakka variant. In Bao'an and Dongguan areas (and probably more areas) /lok8/ is used for both descend and enter. To enter is /lok8 loi2/ or /lok8 hi5/. In this context in some variants, i.e. my own, /jip8/ (or the equivalent /ngip8/) is not used commonly or not used at all.

It's very interesting and funny to note these and many of such differences in all the variants.

Regards,

Thomas Chin

FM Liew wrote:

> Thomas,
> /lok8/ is not enter. It suppose to be descend( coming down or
> fall ).
>
> Enter, in my 'Taibo Hak' is: yip or yip-ki.

Dylan Sung

Re: Translations

Postby Dylan Sung » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:55 am

Yes, I quite agree. My wife is from Longchuan near Heyuan in Guangdong, and she uses 入 /zip1/ (equivalent to /Nip5/ in my dialect). The pronunciation is rather like zip as in a fastener which you pull to close up a coat.

Come in a sit down is /lOk5 lOi11 ts'O33/ 落來坐

Dyl.

Leslie Chong

Re: Translations

Postby Leslie Chong » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:31 am

Thomas - I also speak the Bao On dialect. Do you know the character for "bod" as in "bod tai fung" (blowing up a big wind), it might be the same character in "bod wun" (affected by fever).

Dylan Sung

Re: Translations

Postby Dylan Sung » Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:32 pm

The character is 發 'fat5'. You may be wondering why, and the answer is because it is one of a number of characters which derive from an early stage in Chinese called Middle Chinese (MC).

At the MC stage the character 發 was something like pronounced something like piw@t or biw@t, notice the initial consonant. This later developed from two lip bilabial consonant b or p to lip-teeth labial-dental consonant f, as found in Hakka common readings. bot5 is thus a conservative preserved reading for the character.

Others include

fly 飛, fui1 bui1
fat 肥, fui2 pui2

bark 吠 poi4, but in Cantonese it is faai and in Mandarin fei

These remanant pronunciations tend to indicate that there are some ancient preserved distinctions in the Hakka spoken language.

Dyl.

Natalie

Re: Translations

Postby Natalie » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:17 am

Hi, from one Chin to another,

I never knew what sort of Hakka I speak but I can relate to yours very closely with minor exceptions, eg: (sorry, I don't know the 1,2,3, etc relating to how it sounds like)

/lui2/ = money I say 'chen'

/t'en5 siu3/ = to help I say 'bong' for help

/moi2/ = porridge I say 'chook'


NC

Thomas Chin

Re: Translations

Postby Thomas Chin » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 am

Hi,

Actually, in my own Hakka dialect I only use /cen2/ (chen) for money and /zuk7/ (chook) for porridge.

I use both /bong1/ and /ten5 siu3/ for help. /ten5 siu3/ is rather universal for Hakka dialects and if you ask your Hakka-speaking relatives they most probably know it.

Regards,

Thomas

Leslie Chong

Re: Translations

Postby Leslie Chong » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:00 am

Do you know the character for "bod" as in "bod tai fung" (blowing up a big wind), it might be the same character in "bod vun" (being striken by fever).

Dylan Sung

Re: Translations

Postby Dylan Sung » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:26 pm

It is the same as 追/楷. fat5 and bot5 are both readings of the same character, but bot5 is a remanent of an older stratum of Hakka, harking back to the time when there were no f- initial sounds in Chinese.

Dyl.

Leslie Chong

Re: Translations

Postby Leslie Chong » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:22 pm

Dylan: Thanks for your excellent explanation. We also use "fat vun" but somehow "fat tai fung" does not sound correct! Do you think it is the same "bod" character?
As to the missing initial "f" sound, some natives in S.E. Asia do not pronounce an initial f, it comes out as 'p" and sometimes "b". And to imagine that their ancestors also came down from mainland Asia!

Thomas Chin

Re: Translations

Postby Thomas Chin » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:59 am

It's all the same /bod5/.

Another example of f = p is for Hakka speakers in parts of Indonesia. E.g. /fong5/ (to place) is pronounced as [bong5] with the 'b' sound somewhere in between Hakka [p] and [p'].

/../ Lau Chunfat's Hagfa pinyim
[ ..] IPA

Regards,

Thomas

Leslie Chong

Re: Translations

Postby Leslie Chong » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:21 am

Thomas - Thanks for confirming this. I still think "bod tai fung" sounds more correct than "fat tai fung".
Also for Dylan: I think there are some other double pronounciations in Hakka, please confirm if you have come across them: 1-For the word "cheng" as in "cheng gong (successful)" it seems we can say "sing gung" or we can "sang gung".
2-For the word "guo" ("country", "state") we can say "gok" or "gek" (Sin On Hakka) or "guok" or "guek" (Moi Yen).

Dylan Sung

Re: Translations

Postby Dylan Sung » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:14 am

Yes, you're right.

sin/sang and other words like it belong to a Middle Chinese (MC) group of rhymes which depend on the vowel in reading.

One reading often ends in -in or -en, the other often ends in -ang.

In the country gwok/gwet (ends in t), Hakka -it ending like eat (sit6) come from rimes where the original ending was something like [sik] as in Cantonese. Other vowels you see this happening to is MC [@k] as well which become [et] in Hakka.

Both these groups (ending in -n and -k) belong to the same broad rime group. I'll talk more of this later. Kinda rushed now.

Dyl.


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