Malaysian Cantonese

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
AlexNg

Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:28 am

A lot of chinese in KL doesn't realize that they are speaking some english or malay words. So please correct your words.


malay words
"Lui" - chinese version of "Duit" for money
"Sama" - mispronounciation of "Semua" for all
"mata liu" - "mata mata" malay for police should be "king chak kuk" - police station

english words
"So" - should be "kam"

Eng Wai

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby Eng Wai » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:47 am

Do the Malaysian Cantonese say Lui for money? I always thought that the say qin.

What is the meaning of malay liu in mata liu? Liu is a cantonese word (mandarin liao2, which means hut)

Are you from KL?

Eng Wai

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:07 am

1. Most malaysian cantonese speak "lui" for money, including malaysian hokkien. I am trying to influence people to speak "chin" instead as most of them do not know it is a malay word.

2. As for "sama", the proper word is "chuin pou", the same as mandarin "chuen pu".

3. The "liu" is actually cantonese but hong kong people usually use "king chak kuk" instead of "king chak liu".

Yes, I am from KL.

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:13 am

There are also some borrowed words from hokkien which malaysian cantonese mistaken for cantonese:

pai - number of times, it should be "chi".
diam - silent, it should be "on jing".


I originally thought the "diam-diam" word is malay but was shocked to hear it in a taiwanese hokkien show. Maybe the malay borrowed this word from the hokkien, just like other words such as "teh".

Can anyone confirm that "diam" originate from hokkien and not malay word.

Eng Wai

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby Eng Wai » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:08 am

You could ask this question in the Hokkien forum. There are some crazy Hokkien experts there. Lui is widely accepted as a Hokkien/Chinese word with proper chinese character, gold radical + lei (thunder).

Mata is a Hokkien word also.

Eng Wai

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:09 pm

Lui is not a hokkien/cantonese word, if you go to hong kong and china, they won't understand you.

That chinese character is just somebody inventing their own local version.

It is the crooked version of "duit' because chinese cannot pronounce the d so it becomes l.

Eng Wai

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby Eng Wai » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:53 pm

I read somewhere saying verifying lui originally a Hokkien word. I couldn't find the source now but I will help you post the question in the HOkkien forum. YOu can have a look on the responses.

There are a lot of d sounds in Hokkien or cantonese. D shouldn't be a problem for us. There are no r sound in hokkien, so sometimes you will hear people teasing Mlaysian chinese can't pronounce r properly.

Eng Wai

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:41 am

There are no d sound in cantonese/hokkien/mandarin. There are two "t" sound, one is "ting chu" - to support and "t'ing" - to stop. I am not using "Pin Yin" which is not accurate in describing the first t sound.

When our uneducated ancestors approximate sound they cannot reproduce, they will tend to make the closest sound. For example, the hokkien cannot produce the "f" sound, so they always go to become "h".

In case of foreign words, sometimes it is approximated to "l" and sometimes to "t".

In summary,

d, th, t and t' are all different sounds.

Malay does not have t' and th sound, so all their english pronounciation becomes t.

English does not have t sound, so they pronounce as t'.

Chinese does not have d and th sound, but those sounds are very similar but not the same as t. So you hear most malaysian chinese speaking "the" as "te".

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:33 am

Another malay word:

Pasak - chinese version of malay word "pasar" for market

The proper cantonese word for market is "Kai Si", night market is "Yeh Si".


The malay word "pasar" is also borrowed from bazaar, i think an arab word?

qrasy

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby qrasy » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:28 am

See this word:
Ding "cold"
This is clearly an inovation of "Ling" in Indonesia, probably Indonesian borrowed this word.

Also, here is some "seemingly-Chinese" Indonesian words:
Keong "snail" siput&bekicot would be the native one
Kaki "foot"
Gigi "tooth"
That all could be "genetic loan", brought by mixing.

Peace of mind

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby Peace of mind » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:50 am

Alex Ng wrote:
>Lui is not a hokkien/cantonese word, if you go to hong kong and china, they won't understand you.
Eng Wai wrote:
>I read somewhere saying verifying lui originally a Hokkien word

"Lui" is Cantonese and used by native Cantonese speakers outside Malaysia & Singapore too, surprise !

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:12 am

To summarize and add more malaysian cantonese misuse that I left out:

Hokkien words:
------------------

1. "Ka Ki" - should be "Ji Kei" for "ownself" as in "ngo ji kei"

2. "diam" - silent, it should be "on jing".

3. "pai" - number of times, it should be "chi"


Malay word
--------------

1. "Sinang" - twisted version of "Senang" - should be "Yung Yi"

2. "Lui" - chinese version of "Duit" for money - should be "Chin"

3. "Sama" - mispronounciation of "Semua" for all - should be "Chuin Pou"

4. "Pasak" - chinese version of malay word "pasar" for market.
The proper cantonese word for market is "Kai Si", night market is "Yeh Si".

5. "Mata" - old version of malay word "Mata- mata" for police. Should be "Chai Yan" or "King Chak".

AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby AlexNg » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:17 am

Peace of mind wrote:
>"Lui" is Cantonese and used by native Cantonese speakers outside >Malaysia & Singapore too, surprise !

As there are malaysian/singaporean chinese who migrated to canada, they could have influenced the chinese overseas.

But no, they are actually from the malay word "duit" which was also taken from the dutch word (someone in hokkien forum told me), you must look at the native speakers in hong kong. I have never heard my hong kong friends speak "lui" or cantonese serials speak "lui" unless they have a actor who comes from nanyang in the film and they purposely speak that word for "added" effect.

So don't be confused.

Peace of mind

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby Peace of mind » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:18 am

AlexNg wrote:
>As there are malaysian/singaporean chinese who migrated to canada, they could have influenced the chinese overseas.

"Lui" is used by Cantonese in Vietnam too ! It is NOT from the Malay word "duit", surprise !

qrasy

Re: Malaysian Cantonese

Postby qrasy » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:13 pm

AlexNg
>As there are malaysian/singaporean chinese who migrated to canada, they could have influenced the chinese overseas.

Peace of mind
> "Lui" is used by Cantonese in Vietnam too !


AlexNg, If the word is found in Australia, US, Canada or Singapore you can claim that it is Malaysian Chinese who migrated there, but how about countries like Vietnam?


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