Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
Sum Won

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Sum Won » Sun May 04, 2003 2:38 am

KP:
Just because the base of the southern division of the PLA is located in Guangdong, doesn't mean that everyone in the Army is Cantonese. When they had to station troops in Hong Kong, they had to give Cantonese training to the troops.

Sally
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Sally » Sun May 04, 2003 7:36 am

Hi guys
I think there is one elemantary thing that you guys have to make clear first
Cantonese and Mandarin are both two of the many dialects in China,with the latter one mainly spoken in Beijing,Chinese,generally is referred to the language spoken in China,it's just that as time goes by,people tend to regard Chinese as Mandarin.So personally I really figure that Cantonese is just one dialect of Chinese!
:)

select

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby select » Sat May 31, 2003 7:38 pm

..............mandarin is a national language. other name for canton is yue for its language.canton is part of han chinese tribe.and japanese is an outsider who borrow 1.000 more words from chinese. this is the foolish argument i had ever seen.

HKU Student

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby HKU Student » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:58 am

It's time to finish this "Moliu" topic. I really don't know why ppl argue this meaningless topic here. The fact nowadays is simple: Hong Kong ppl do write Chinese and think they're Chinese (at least most of them)...

Cantonese Speaker

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Cantonese Speaker » Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:08 pm

I recommend this web page
http://www.ylinn.com/BBS/BestArticle.asp
to anyone who want to know more about Yue or Lingnan history.
3 articles strongly recommended -- 共來百越文身地--嶺南文化根, 粵語口語的古渶語詞 and 回望嶺南(轉載)
but Simplified Chinese, sorry to someone who can't read.

[%sig%]

gondri

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby gondri » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:22 pm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

good bye in cantonese: "choi kin".

good bye in hakka: "choi kian".-

good bye in japanese: "sayonara".

So cantonese is not related to japanese at all and are real
chinese.


Many of your writing are false, anonymous sum won.

Hung Dao Dai Vuong

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Hung Dao Dai Vuong » Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:07 pm

i believe the Japanese language belongs to the same language family as Hungary!

Aurelio

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Aurelio » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:17 pm

Dear all:

I personally would like to see this thread move so far down in the priority list that it doesn't appear on the first page anymore at all. I'm quite sure that the majority in this forum will share this opinion. The only way to make this happen is by not responding to this thread anymore.

So if right now you're considering to write flaming responses -JUST DON'T! It's not worth it anyway. Put this thread out of it's misery.

Regards,
Aurelio

Guest

Re: Cantonese originally not Chinese???

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:11 am

HKB wrote:coz we were probably dangerous. cantonese soldiers and combat regiments were always the most feared by China's enemies. Recall General Yuen Sung Wun or the 72 martyrs, etc. we R dangerous. :)

Language changes over time. Using that kind of meaning does not mean that we have different origins. Chinese has 2 origins, the North and the South. If you believe the Cantonese had been mixed with the North, the anthropologists would never find out. It's up to you believe it or not.

qrasy

Postby qrasy » Mon May 02, 2005 12:33 pm

'Chinese has 2 origins', but it actually means that one Chinese are genetically different from each other (I guess: mainly because of different mixing). As I know, there were lots of mix in South Area, but Y gene never change, it can prove that South Chinese and North Chinese has the same grand-grand..father.

Cantonese guy

Postby Cantonese guy » Fri May 06, 2005 12:02 am

http://www.secretchina.com/news/article ... 4968b.html

民國初成,眾議員共商治國大計,民國國語幾被定為粵語,蓋因國會議員過半粵人也。然孫文先生顧全大局,力勸同鄉,國語終被定為京話


學者普遍認為客家話是古漢語的活化石,是在中原變亂時期(如:五胡亂華時)被北方遊牧民族驅趕到南方的漢族人說的語音。明代國語大概是和現在西安一帶說的官話相似。.....

普通話不是完美語言(事實上普通話是"人造語言",建國後在北京話基礎上修改而成,中國人自古以來就不是說普通話的,但現在許多人都誤解),所以才有趙元任殫精竭慮設計帶入聲國語的事情(民國)。.....

現在的北京話是女真滿洲人向漢族滿洲人學說漢語時用的口音。由於滿族後來成為統治者,所以離得近地區的權貴都放棄自己的當地口音說這種新的清朝官話,否則難免官途不順,生意難做,久而久之,也就變成在北方應用廣泛的普通話....


推廣普通話,其積極意義在於全國各族人民有一件交流工具。但不等於,南方話、南方文化比北方話、北方文化下賤

ongtk

Postby ongtk » Fri May 06, 2005 3:49 am

I think above story is completely wrong compare to he story told by Prof. 唐作藩of Beijing Univeristy.In 1924 ,there are are two sects of experts arguing about what kind of language is better for common language.Is it Nanjing hua which is National language even until 1850 or Beijing language with some changes in vocabulary and grammar?The outcome is in favour of latter instead of nanjing language with ru sheng and some consonants of southern languages.
There are no prove of Cantonese nearly being selected as National language after Chairman Mao toke over .Why not he selects his mother tongue-xiang hua as the National language?
It has been denied by several Prof.It is just a dream by some cantonese people.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun May 08, 2005 2:37 pm

qrasy wrote:'Chinese has 2 origins', but it actually means that one Chinese are genetically different from each other (I guess: mainly because of different mixing). As I know, there were lots of mix in South Area, but Y gene never change, it can prove that South Chinese and North Chinese has the same grand-grand..father.


based on your words of imagination. You wish one father as meaning as same root, which is beyond the work of science. It's ok to accept it as the Southern Chinese having a little mix but not all, 2000 years is generally 40 generations, not much. So there is no way that they could make up the whole Southern Chinese. Humans did not multiply that much as the mortality rate was quite high in the past. If Vietnam never gained independence, they would have been in Cantonese dialect as Annamese. The fate of Annamese did not have much difference from other Cantonese, except only political controls.

qrasy

Postby qrasy » Thu May 12, 2005 9:39 am

???
based on your words of imagination. You wish one father as meaning as same root, which is beyond the work of science. It's ok to accept it as the Southern Chinese having a little mix but not all, 2000 years is generally 40 generations, not much
No, I mean that its that Chinese does not come from annexation of 2 different people, South Chinese is not perfect non-original-Chinese.
If you mean that not all South-Chinese may be Han-descendant, there are so many persons in South China that don't claim they are Han.

If Vietnam never gained independence, they would have been in Cantonese dialect as Annamese. The fate of Annamese did not have much difference from other Cantonese, except only political controls.
What do you mean? Annamese is not the same as Cantonese. Their language are very different.

Cantonese guy

Postby Cantonese guy » Thu May 12, 2005 7:15 pm

hi ongtk and everyone,

umm chairman Mao is the generation after the story i found.
I guess the link i gave is make sence (just make sence , doesn't mean truth because i don't know which one is truth, either). you could see most officers are cantonese. The link i found is talking about the 1st public gov (the current chinese gov in taiwan island)

In the Mao generation (the current chinese gov in mainland) , most officers speak nanjing language, beijing language... blah blah... etc

Therefore, it seems that what i found and what you heard are make sence and have no conflicts. The link i found is talking about the year of 1911 (not sure), and what you heard is about 1945


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