The Cantonese taught in the book is Canton-type Cantonese without a doubt, but doesn't seem to follow a Hong Kong standard, and some sentences seem to show VNese influence. The use of 有...冇 question structures with sentence-final 冇 is an example of a style of Cantonese common in "the countryside", but stigmatized and less heard in HK and Canton. This makes this book unique among all modern Cantonese teaching materials. The author discusses Cantonese in a sophisticated manner, even explaining to the reader that some Cantonese words have no kanji, and other words have semi-formal, non-classic kanji much like VN Nom.
amhoanna wrote:1. This post is close kin to a series of posts over in the Hokkien forum entitled Hoklo in 5. Sometimes, people will talk to me in Cantonese or, less commonly, Mandarin when they hear or guess that I'm one of the "People of the Boats" (nguoi tau). They always speak what seems to me to be native Cantonese, although in some cases their native language is not Canto. This is also my experience in the diaspora.
amhoanna wrote:Hail Hokkien Learner, well met once again. I've heard that 唐人 in Annam don't like to be called người Tàu. Why is that, exactly? Is it just b/c it sounds like "Boat People"? Or is there a deeper reason?
Personally, I will always identify as người Tàu, although I'll have to respect other people's wish not to be called that. For me, there's no other word in any language that captures my ethnic identity clean the way "người Tàu" does.
I don't like the word "người Hoa" and its equivalents b/c it seems to me that this is a word that was propagated first by the ROC and later the PRC as well - modern states with nationalist / ethno-chauvinist agendas. The word may've existed for a long time, but it seems that hardly anybody ever used it before ROC times. I will stand corrected if anyone can prove otherwise. Till then, should anybody call me người Hoa, I will correct them and say I am người Tàu instead.
I believe there's a grain of truth in what U say, that Vietnamese - Southern Vietnamese esp. - takes a lot of words from Cantonese. Technically, though, from what I know of the history, VNmese took a lot of words from ancient languages that may be deeply related to Cantonese (across time) - not from Cantonese itself. If U think about it, there are a lot of VNmese words, Sino- and otherwise, that actually sound more like their Teochew equivalents than their Cantonese equivalents. This is b/c modern VNmese, Cantonese, and Teochew didn't exist back then - they each evolved out of what was spoken back then.
There are some words that clearly come straight out of Cantonese, such as oành thanh = WONTONS and xì dầu = SOY SAUCE.
The linguistic history of what are today the Red River valley and the West River valley and that whole area in between (mostly Kwongsai 廣西), plus Hainam 海南, is tremendously interesting - much wilder than U would think just looking at modern-day Pearl Delta Cantonese.
The S VNmese pronunciation of "Viet" is not quite the same as "Country Cantonese" - the final is velar, and the vowel is a diphthong. Also, not all speakers have a /j/ initial. Std Cantonese with its rounded vowel is even farther off. But S VNmese /v/ in both of its incarnations definitely seems to be a local innovation. Who's to say, maybe contact with people speaking Teochew, Hokkien, Cantonese, Khmer or Cham brought it about.
It's cool that U've still got Vietnam and Saigon on your mind even though U've moved to Oz. If U want to become fluent in Hokkien, I'd suggest U immerse in a Hokkien-speaking environment when U have the time. Let us know if U need suggestions for where.
amhoanna wrote:Here's a cool-looking forum on Cantonese:
U gotta love the forum tagline: 敢想敢做.
Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that
About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.
amhoanna wrote:Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that
I'm curious. Why are U anti-Viet?
Are U also against Anglicized Chinese people, or are U proud to be one? Perhaps this forum is not for U either and U're not gonna join us here?About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.
Who "taught" you this? What do they mean by a language being based on an education system? If anything, both dialects seem to be pretty corroded in relation to the proto-language. I say this b/c some of the dialects in middle Vietnam seem to preserve a lot more distinctions than either N or S.
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