Cantonese originally not Chinese???

[Sum Won]

I'm not sure exactly how far north the Dong Son culture went. However the possibility that the Qin destroyed all of the Chu tombs, couldn't happen. If they did, they missed quite a number of tombs in those other areas, so it wouldn't make sense to only destroy the ones in GuangDong, unless there was some type of ulterior motive, we can't find...

You also have to remember that a few of the states in the Warring states period, were identified to be as "Yue" states (the Kingdom of Wu and Yue, are the only two examples I can think of, I can't remember if there are anymore). These in turn, were conquered by the Chu.

[Hung Dao Dai Vuong]

".....I think that Cantonese originally weren't Chinese....."

I think we originally weren't apes either!

[Hung Dao Dai Vuong]

I believe the Vietnamese calender started in the year 2879 B.C!

[JP]

please note that cantonese and mandarin developed differently and modern cantonese only have six tones
eg: for the word foo in the six tones can mean (wife, father, wealth, bitter, husband, and the yellow piece of paper that you write spells on to ward of evil spirits)
cantonese developed over 2000 years ago but mandarin has only been around for about 800 so years
so when the japs came to china during the tang dynasty mandarin wasn't even around
in japanese 'kanji' usaully have two types of readings called
1. on- this is the ancient chinese pronunication of the character and is used in sophisticated 'kanji' compounds
2. kun- the native tongue 'yamato kotoba' and is used when pronunicing 'kanji' by itself or in simple 'kanji' compounds

eg:
the 'on' reading of the word for metal/steel in jap is "tetsu"
in canto is "tit" very obvious that the japs tried to inherit the silent "t" at the end of "tit" but due to limitations of the japanese language they added the "tsu" on the end

[Sum Won]

Maybe it's about time that I scrapped this thread, and started an updated one on my theories...
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JP:
You are correct that the reason Japanese and Cantonese sound so similar, is because Cantonese retains most of the MC Chinese, which is what the Japanese borrowed from. However, there was one thing that went unanswered...
http://safeproxy.org/cgi-bin/nph-proxy. ... 1149&t=400
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In fact, that idea isn't so bad, because this one is so tainted with politics.

[HKB]

sum won, the character for Yue in discribing cantonese is not the same yue as vietnam. not "traverse" it's different word all together. I don't have cHinese software, so if someone does would they write the correct word for sum?

[Sum Won]

HKB:
The Yue describing the Cantonese, has an ancient meaning of "Dangerous" (or something to that affect), while the "Yue" (Viet) in VietNam means "beyond". This same word was used to describe all tribes south of the Zhou dynasty Chinese border indiscriminantly, with much disregard as well. How the term " (Dangerous) Yue" came to describe the Cantonese is a mystery to me... Why don't you (or anyone else for that matter) try explaining that?

[HKB]

coz we were probably dangerous. cantonese soldiers and combat regiments were always the most feared by China's enemies. Recall General Yuen Sung Wun or the 72 martyrs, etc. we R dangerous.

[KP]

The "Yue" in VietNam meaning "beyond" is obviously a contemporary Chinese concept. In the past, the Vietnamese have referred to themselves as "Dai Viet" or "Tai? Yue" as well as Nan Yue/Nam Viet. I know many of you don't think much of the people who once lived in this region....but you believe they would name themselves as "the Great Beyond" or "South Beyond"?

More likely..and definitely less sino-centric is that the "Southern" peoples, including present-day Vietnamese referred to themselves as "Viet/Yue".

[KP]

"coz we were probably dangerous. cantonese soldiers and combat regiments were always the most feared by China's enemies. Recall General Yuen Sung Wun or the 72 martyrs, etc. we R dangerous. "

Your explanation of Cantonese Yue are in fact "dangerous" doesn't hold well........as history will tell you that the Cantonese Yue aren't nearly as dangerous as the Yue in Nothern Vietnam.