Hi Eugene,
let's find an example:
"the bird wants to go out"
Yale: jek jeuk jái séung chèut heui
Jyutping: zek3 zoek3 zai2 soeng2 ceot1 heoi3
Always when there is a short vowel (in case of -eui, -eut, -eun), Jyutping uses 'eo'. Always when there is a long vowel (in case of -eu, -euk, -eung), Jyutping uses 'oe'.
It should be no real problem for Yale, because there is no ambiguity. You can always tell from the final consonant, what sound should be spoken. You have a similar behaviour for 'i' and 'u'. However, I think that short 'eu' and long 'eu' have nothing in common (unlike 'i' and 'u' where the sounds are similar). And therefore it makes good sense to spell them in differently.
Actually, many text books fail to point out the difference in pronounciation. E.g. look at the IPA entries for the two sounds in the table of the following web link.
No, I cannot recommend any book for Jyutping, because I have yet to see one. (Best reason to stick with Yale.) All what I have seen are web pages and they are mostly not made for people like us, but rather for linguists and teachers. For me, it was quite some detective work to find out how it works.
Try this page first. It tells you a lot, if you know Yale.
http://chinalanguage.com/CCDICT/Support/jyutpin.php
This is all in Chinese, but if you click around here, you fill find pages where you have Jyutping and the English translation for single words.
http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton2
and see also
http://www.hku.hk/linguist/lshk/Jyutping/
Have fun
Helmut
Correct way to say "money" in Cantonese?
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Eugene Morrow
Yale eu and eui
Helmut,
Thank you for the excellent example, and the attention to detail.
I am relieved that Yale can accurately give pronunciations. I agree that there is a VERY big difference between heui and jeuk, yet the spelling looks very similar. I have learned to treat eui as a very special situation where there are two sounds: the first one like "oy" in "soy" and the second like an umlauh in german.
I am happy. In the end, I need romanisation simply to start me off, and later I should learn by simply speaking and listening, so in theory I won't need it anymore. I am grateful romanisation exists, because it helps a lot.
Thanks again for you help,
Eugene Morrow
Thank you for the excellent example, and the attention to detail.
I am relieved that Yale can accurately give pronunciations. I agree that there is a VERY big difference between heui and jeuk, yet the spelling looks very similar. I have learned to treat eui as a very special situation where there are two sounds: the first one like "oy" in "soy" and the second like an umlauh in german.
I am happy. In the end, I need romanisation simply to start me off, and later I should learn by simply speaking and listening, so in theory I won't need it anymore. I am grateful romanisation exists, because it helps a lot.
Thanks again for you help,
Eugene Morrow