<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xml:lang="en-gb"> <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/6933" /> <title>Chinese languages</title> <subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" /> <updated>2013-06-18T16:52:29+00:00</updated> <author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/6933</id> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Falconstar]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-18T16:52:29+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-18T16:52:29+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85864#p85864</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85864#p85864"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85864#p85864"><![CDATA[ Hi, I'm from Medan.. U can ask me if u wanna know <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif" width="15" height="15" alt="8)" title="Cool"> <br>From what I know.. There are some teochew influence in medan hokkien..<br><br>as example, ciak peng (eat rice) which actually in hokkien, ciak pui.<br>Both "peng" and "pui" are understandable as "rice".<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17504">Falconstar</a> — Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:52 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Falconstar]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-18T16:48:29+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-18T16:48:29+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85863#p85863</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85863#p85863"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85863#p85863"><![CDATA[ Hi, I'm from Medan.. U can ask me if u wanna know <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif" width="15" height="15" alt="8)" title="Cool"> <br>From what I know.. There are some teochew influence in medan hokkien..<br><br>as example, ciak peng (eat rice) which actually in hokkien, ciak pui.<br>Both "peng" and "pui" are understandable as "rice".<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17504">Falconstar</a> — Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:48 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-06T03:04:49+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-06T03:04:49+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85761#p85761</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85761#p85761"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85761#p85761"><![CDATA[ Kadri, chiáⁿ lí kià imélǔ hǒ‧ ‧góa hó ‧bô? Lí hit ciuⁿ cheeh góa ciâⁿ giàn tha̍k, sīmcì kui pún cheeh. <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:04 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-06T02:54:25+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-06T02:54:25+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85759#p85759</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85759#p85759"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85759#p85759"><![CDATA[ FUTURESPY, lí íkeng khaisí tiàm cia siá Ho̍hló bûn ‧a! Cán.<br><br>I've heard enough testimony to last a lifetime that the two Hokkiens Penang and Medan are very, very close. <br><br>That said, Medan Hokkien has more "wild" aspects, such as the use of "kín" to mark the progressive. Very intriguing. It seems to come from Cantonese "kán", but instead of borrowing the word phonetically, it's like they dug into the phonology of it all and reconstructed a "Hokkien cognate" for the Cantonese word. An understudied topic, like the rest of Medan Hokkien. My best guess at this point is that the word comes from Hoisan (Seiyap), not Delta Cantonese. Much of Penang is Hoisan by heritage, so why not Medan too? And the Hoisan cognate for "kán" would be "kín", according to what little I know about Hoisan.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:54 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[AndrewAndrew]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-05T11:07:10+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-05T11:07:10+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85755#p85755</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85755#p85755"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85755#p85755"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Sorry, I find it very difficult to comment on this. I've confessed to you elsewhere that I find it difficult to hear things about Hokkien (like the accent) when it's sung. </div></blockquote>Thanks Sim. What about the vocabulary? Does it sound pretty much Penang to you?</div></blockquote>The only difference I can pick out is "tsit-kai" instead of "tsit-le", etc.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7712">AndrewAndrew</a> — Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:07 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[FutureSpy]]></name></author> <updated>2013-06-05T03:25:03+00:00</updated> <published>2013-06-05T03:25:03+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85753#p85753</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85753#p85753"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85753#p85753"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Sorry, I find it very difficult to comment on this. I've confessed to you elsewhere that I find it difficult to hear things about Hokkien (like the accent) when it's sung. </div></blockquote>Thanks Sim. What about the vocabulary? Does it sound pretty much Penang to you?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14689">FutureSpy</a> — Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:25 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[SimL]]></name></author> <updated>2013-05-30T01:18:13+00:00</updated> <published>2013-05-30T01:18:13+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85739#p85739</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85739#p85739"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85739#p85739"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIGvgOHILs" class="postlink">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIGvgOHILs</a><br><br>How close is that to Penang Hokkien, just out of curiosity? (I think he's singing in Medan Hokkien 'cos he uses words like ta-pi, lú, and in another song he uses pūiⁿ and ōa <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing"> )</div></blockquote>Sorry, I find it very difficult to comment on this. I've confessed to you elsewhere that I find it difficult to hear things about Hokkien (like the accent) when it's sung. Your observation that he uses "Penang type" sounds (lú etc) is absolutely correct. I see no point saying "lú" etc, and then trying to sing in a Taiwanese way, so I imagine that his accent is very "North Malayan".<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=977">SimL</a> — Thu May 30, 2013 1:18 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Ah-bin]]></name></author> <updated>2013-05-23T05:06:37+00:00</updated> <published>2013-05-23T05:06:37+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85694#p85694</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85694#p85694"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85694#p85694"><![CDATA[ I have a pdf of a chapter from a book on the languages used by the Southeast Asian Chinese I will send anyone who is interested, it has a long wordlist of Sumatran Hokkien, and a few pages of sentences iluustrating the grammar. I found it be be quite similar to Penang Hokkien on paper. I'll send the pdf to anyone who is interested if they pm me.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1174">Ah-bin</a> — Thu May 23, 2013 5:06 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[FutureSpy]]></name></author> <updated>2013-05-22T23:24:59+00:00</updated> <published>2013-05-22T23:24:59+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85692#p85692</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85692#p85692"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85692#p85692"><![CDATA[ Since I know there's no such a rule for not bumping old topics in this forum, here I am bumping this old topic! (actually I even doubt ū pán-chú leh khòaⁿ kah leh pó-pì chit-ê BBS, in-ūi tiāⁿ-tiāⁿ bô-lâng thang pī-bián pùn-sò chia... broken Hokkien! <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green">)<br><br>Yesterday, I came across this Medanese guy's channel. He sings in Hokkien, and now his recordings sound really professional, prolly studio recorded.<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIGvgOHILs" class="postlink">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIGvgOHILs</a><br><br>How close is that to Penang Hokkien, just out of curiosity? (I think he's singing in Medan Hokkien 'cos he uses words like ta-pi, lú, and in another song he uses pūiⁿ and ōa <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing"> )<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=14689">FutureSpy</a> — Wed May 22, 2013 11:24 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[SimL]]></name></author> <updated>2010-03-01T16:50:26+00:00</updated> <published>2010-03-01T16:50:26+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28112#p28112</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28112#p28112"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28112#p28112"><![CDATA[ Hi Wangchong,<br><br>Great to see you here. Welcome!<br><br>I've only ever spoken to <em class="text-italics">one</em> person from Medan, and my experience was similar to kkslok's and different from wangchong's. Perhaps even in Medan, there are various forms spoken.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=977">SimL</a> — Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:50 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[kkslok]]></name></author> <updated>2010-03-01T14:31:45+00:00</updated> <published>2010-03-01T14:31:45+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28104#p28104</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28104#p28104"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28104#p28104"><![CDATA[ My experience with Medan Hokkien was slightly different from wangchong's. <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":-)" title="Smile"> <br>I was brought up speaking Taiping (Perak) Hokkien, which is actually the same as Penang Hokkien. Based on my experience from the visit to Medan many years ago and conversation in Hokkien with a friend from Medan. I was indeed very surprised (since Medan is quite a ditance away and accross the "sea") that there was no difference between Medan and my variant apart some indonesian words used in sentences.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6935">kkslok</a> — Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:31 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[wangchong]]></name></author> <updated>2010-03-01T12:38:19+00:00</updated> <published>2010-03-01T12:38:19+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28102#p28102</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28102#p28102"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=28102#p28102"><![CDATA[ I was brought up speaking Singaporean hokkien. When I moved to the US, I had no problem understanding or conversing with hokkien people from Penang. Except for some variance, I hardly knew it was a different language. But when I moved to Mankato Minnesota, I met 20 over Indonesian students from Medan. I tried conversation with them but over the course of two years, I ended up learning a completely new language (Medan Hokien). Fortunately, I speak Malay and Indonesian and so I was able to pick up what they say whenever part of their language is non-hokkien. But I must say, a typical Penang or Singaporean hokkien person will have a very hard time understanding beyond a few words every sentence in Medan hokkien (Medanese Hokien?).<br><br>I must say, it's even harder for me than the last time (whilst travelling in Taiwan) when I fake myself as a local Taiwanese speaking Taiwanese Hokkien. After learning from Wikipedia that Medan hokkien is from 漳州, and after checking their geographical location from my ancestor, and talking to my 92-year-old granny explaining how far 漳州 was when she was a kid and how nobody could understand them, it sort of explains. Now I am 45 years old. I'm still struggling to teach myself Japanese, and I'm seeing so many sounds in Japanese that sounded just like hokkien (e.g. counting from 2 to 6, "music", "dried shrimp",...) <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6950">wangchong</a> — Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:38 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[tadpole]]></name></author> <updated>2009-09-27T23:49:50+00:00</updated> <published>2009-09-27T23:49:50+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26439#p26439</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26439#p26439"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26439#p26439"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>1. 喙 means beak and not mouth.</div></blockquote>Not true in ancient times. <a href="http://www.kangxizidian.com/kangxi/0198.gif" class="postlink">http://www.kangxizidian.com/kangxi/0198.gif</a> 說文 has it listed simply as "mouth".<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>2. 喙 has the sound Hui in mandarin, Fui in cantonese. Usually a Hui in mandarin would translate to Hui in minnan too.</div></blockquote>But 喙 is a YinQu tone category word. This fact alone lends strong support to it. Beside, there are hundreds of people digging into Chinese historical sources. Trust me, this issue has been settled already decades ago. Your best starting point is still: <a href="http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/tw/index.htm" class="postlink">http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/tw/index.htm</a> . I remind you that there are real people, real scholars behind all this work.<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Furthermore, 插嘴 is used in cantonese (C'ap Cui) and mandarin (C'a Cui) too and this proves that 嘴 is the correct character instead of 喙.</div></blockquote>Wrong tone category. Both in Mandarin and Cantonese 嘴 is YinShang tone category. This makes it impossible to be the correct character for Hokkien, which is YinQu tone category.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4011">tadpole</a> — Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:49 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2009-09-27T19:38:56+00:00</updated> <published>2009-09-27T19:38:56+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26438#p26438</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26438#p26438"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26438#p26438"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Hi, Sim,<br><br>Like you, I was initially inclined to think that <em class="text-italics">chui3</em> 'mouth' should be <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">嘴</span>. However, all the references I have seen thus far point to <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">喙</span> as the correct character. So, as much as I would like to bend to my instincts, am afraid I will have to defer to the overwhelming strength of the experts' opinion for now. <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed"><br><br>Mark</div></blockquote>Sorry but I don't quite agree for several reasons.<br><br>1. 喙 means beak and not mouth.<br><br>2. 喙 has the sound Hui in mandarin, Fui in cantonese. Usually a Hui in mandarin would translate to Hui in minnan too.<br><br>3. Let's assume your assumption that 喙 is pronounced as C'ui as a single character (colloquail sound) but when combined in a literary word , it must be pronounced as Hui since mandarin and cantonese has similar sound. But 插嘴 is pronounced as C'ap C'ui and not C'ap Hui (插喙) in Minnan. <br><br>Furthermore, 插嘴 is used in cantonese (C'ap Cui) and mandarin (C'a Cui) too and this proves that 嘴 is the correct character instead of 喙.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:38 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author> <updated>2009-09-25T22:58:25+00:00</updated> <published>2009-09-25T22:58:25+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26407#p26407</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26407#p26407"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Penang Hokkien vs Medan Hokkien]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26407#p26407"><![CDATA[ [quote="Mark Yong"]On the subject of <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">土</span> and <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">塗</span>. I checked my copy of the Chiang Chiu dictionary. It gives <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">土</span> <em class="text-italics">tO3</em> as 'earth' or 'soil', or by extension, 'local'. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">塗</span> <em class="text-italics">tO2</em>, however, refers specifically to 'mud' or 'clay', e.g. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">塗糜</span> <em class="text-italics">tO2-moi</em>. Note the difference in tone, too - the former is rising, the latter is low-flat. Though, I wonder why <em class="text-italics">tO-k'a</em> 'floor' is quoted in the dictionary as <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">塗骹</span> and not <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">土</span>.<br><br>Because if 土 is 上聲, then it sounds wrong in thO22-kha44.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:58 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> </feed>