<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xml:lang="en-gb"> <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/58540" /> <title>Chinese languages</title> <subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" /> <updated>2013-11-27T07:14:35+00:00</updated> <author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/58540</id> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-27T07:14:35+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-27T07:14:35+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86695#p86695</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86695#p86695"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86695#p86695"><![CDATA[ I agree with Abun's analysis. <br><br>The Kangxi says:<br><br>《篇海類編》音寨。又音啓。<br><br><a href="http://www.zdic.net/z/8b/kx/21E58.htm" class="postlink">http://www.zdic.net/z/8b/kx/21E58.htm</a><br><br>Basically, the character has two completely different pronunciations in Literary Chinese. The second one, the "also" one, would correspond to khé in Hokkien. Even assuming both exist in Hokkien, taking the entire genealogical and sociolinguistic context into account, I think khé would be what Elmer's family actually used.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:14 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-20T10:08:05+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-20T10:08:05+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86671#p86671</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86671#p86671"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86671#p86671"><![CDATA[ That sounds fair. If I look to this family, I see that almost all the names contain the character 山. So it may be that this part was actually more for consistency than it had impact on the pronunciation. Thanks!<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:08 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Abun]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-20T09:48:43+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-20T09:48:43+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86670#p86670</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86670#p86670"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86670#p86670"><![CDATA[ Amhoanna, in case your font problems continue, it's 𢼄 over 山. <br><br>I personally don't know that character, but seeing none of the dictionaries I have available here (including Kangxi) knows it, I don't feel that bad about it <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"> Therefore, the only thing I can think of is to guess by analogy from other characters which include 𢼄. Among all the characters I could find (啟/啓, 棨, 晵, 䁈, 䏿, 肇, 綮), every single one of them is pronounced khé (qǐ in mandarin if you need that, too), except for one, 肇 tiāu (zhào in mandarin), so I would think that khé is a fairly safe guess. Can't say for sure though, of course.<br><br>[Edit:] They seriously need to add the option to delete your own posts, at least if no one has replied yet. I keep accidently hitting "quote" instead of "edit" and end up with the same post twice <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17528">Abun</a> — Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:48 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[Abun]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-20T09:46:29+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-20T09:46:29+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86669#p86669</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86669#p86669"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86669#p86669"><![CDATA[ Amhoanna, in case your font problems continue, it's 𢼄 over 山. <br><br>I personally don't know that character, but seeing none of the dictionaries I have available here (including Kangxi) don't know it either, I don't feel that bad about it <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"> Therefore, the only thing I can think of is to guess by analogy from other characters which include 𢼄. Among all the characters I could find (啟/啓, 棨, 晵, 䁈, 䏿, 肇, 綮), every single one of them is pronounced khé (qǐ in mandarin if you need that, too), except for one, 肇 tiãu, so I would think that khé is a fairly safe guess. Can't say for sure though, of course.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17528">Abun</a> — Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:46 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-20T08:05:00+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-20T08:05:00+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86668#p86668</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86668#p86668"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86668#p86668"><![CDATA[ Thanks,<br><br>The new file is on <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?1mm40l6dh3j9g38" class="postlink">http://www.mediafire.com/?1mm40l6dh3j9g38</a>. One thing though, I don't think this is a shared file like on dropbox, that people can update.<br><br>The character 𡹘 is problematic yes. I can only see it with certain fonts. I am 100% of 山, 90% sure of the 夂 and 50% of the 户 (you have to realize I have this genealogy in a rather poor copy and as non-chinese-reader I had to decipher all the characters myself).<br><br>regards,<br>Elmer<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:05 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-20T07:33:51+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-20T07:33:51+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86666#p86666</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86666#p86666"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86666#p86666"><![CDATA[ The ones in red:<br><br>21 𡹘 ? This character is not showing up on my Mac. Can anyone else see it?<br>21 勳 ? hun (first tone)<br>21 廸 ? alt. char. for 迪, te̍k<br>21 扬 ? alt. char. for 揚, iông<br>21 瑶 ? alt. char. for 瑤, iâu<br><br>Elmer, if U want, U can insert another column in your spreadsheet for us to make notes in. In the end, we can bring the question marks that persist to other, more hardcore venues.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:33 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-19T22:04:39+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-19T22:04:39+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86665#p86665</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86665#p86665"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86665#p86665"><![CDATA[ Many thanks for all your support. <br><br>I have in total 303 Chinese names, containing in total 589 characters, made up from 268 individual characters. That is a lot of work <br><br>To create some overview, I have made a list of these 268 characters, which are linked to the names. So if I change the pronunciation of a character, it may affect the Hokkien-writing of several names. Then I looked for the pronunciation. I used <a href="http://taigi.fhl.net/dict/" class="postlink">http://taigi.fhl.net/dict/</a> as primary source (green) and <a href="https://github.com/lukhnos/openvanilla/blob/master/DataTables/poj-holo.cin" class="postlink">https://github.com/lukhnos/openvanilla/ ... j-holo.cin</a> (yellow) as secondary source. Then I learnt that many characters can have different pronunciations. So I put the characters in orde of certainty.<br><br>I have put this list on <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?1mm40l6dh3j9g38" class="postlink">http://www.mediafire.com/?1mm40l6dh3j9g38</a>. If you want you can have a look at it. Any comments are appreciated, especially for the characters at the bottom of the list, about which I am the least sure.<br><br>Many regards, Elmer<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:04 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-11-19T08:35:25+00:00</updated> <published>2013-11-19T08:35:25+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86660#p86660</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86660#p86660"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86660#p86660"><![CDATA[ OK - let's help Elmer.<br><br>These are, I believe, correct:<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Jūn'ān (君安) - Kun'an<br>Jūnhuái (君懷) - Kunhoâi<br>Jūnbó (君博) - Kunphok </div></blockquote>These are also correct, I think:<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Rǔjǐn (汝謹) - Júkín <br>Rǔqiān (汝謙) - Júkhiam<br>Rǔgōng (汝恭) - Júkiong<br>Rǔjiǎn (汝儉) - Júkhiām<br>Rǔliáng (汝良) - Júliâng </div></blockquote>My guess is that 汝 is Jí in Ciangciu proper, but Jú in Kakbé 角美.<br><br>Same with the surname 諭: Jī in Ciangciu proper, Jū in Kakbé. (Elmer - does your family call itself Ju / Dzu?)<br><br>良 is liâng in Ciangciu proper; I'm guessing Kakbé is the same way. If Penang has liâng, I would just go with it; if Penang has liông, we will need to contact "higher authorities" to see which it is for Kakbé. <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":P" title="Razz"> <br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Jūntōng (君通) - <span style="text-decoration:underline">Kunthàng</span> / <strong class="text-strong">Kunthong</strong> ?</div></blockquote>Kunthong, yes<br><br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Rǔzhūn (汝諄) - Jútun</div></blockquote>Júchun <br>(using "orthodox" Church Romanization)<br><br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Jūndié (君迭) – Kun… <br>Rǔhuì (汝誨) – Jú…<br>Rǔmó (汝謨) – Jú…<br>Rǔwēn (汝温) – Jú…<br>Rǔguī (汝珪) – Jú…</div></blockquote>Kuntia̍t<br>Júhòe<br>Júbô͘ (open "o" with raised dot)<br>Jú'un<br>Júkui<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Rǔràng (汝讓) – Jú…<br>Rǔzhāng (汝璋) – Jú…</div></blockquote>These will require some local and historical knowledge as to what the reading would've been, in Kakbé, back then.<br><br>My best guesses are Jújiāng and Júchiong, but I could be wrong. What do U others say?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:35 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-10-28T09:06:57+00:00</updated> <published>2013-10-28T09:06:57+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86610#p86610</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86610#p86610"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86610#p86610"><![CDATA[ thanks! I am going to work with this right away!<br><br>regards,<br>Elmer<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:06 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-10-27T13:34:08+00:00</updated> <published>2013-10-27T13:34:08+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86601#p86601</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86601#p86601"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86601#p86601"><![CDATA[ Hi, Elmer --<br><br>It seems 角美(Kakbí ?)Hokkien is "mainstream Ciangciu", with a twist: it has -u endings in the -ir/-u/-i matrix where other Ciangciu dialects generally go -i. This is most likely where Penang Hokkien got the -u in "lu", YOU. We can help U with this.<br><br>Here is a dictionary I recommend U start with. Enter each character individually in the 漢字 box (or field).<br><a href="http://taigi.fhl.net/dict/" class="postlink">http://taigi.fhl.net/dict/</a><br><br>If you see ANY alternate spellings with "漳" in parentheses, go with that one. If not, then use the default (Amoy). For your list, stick with the literary -- i.e. the one that most resembles Cantonese and Mandarin.<br><br>The spelling is Church Romanization, not a bad choice in any case. The diacritics mark tone, just as in your Mandarin spellings. If U need help, check back here. I'm tied up for a few days.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:34 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-10-26T12:34:15+00:00</updated> <published>2013-10-26T12:34:15+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86600#p86600</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86600#p86600"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86600#p86600"><![CDATA[ Oh yes, stupid of me I did not mention. My family lived near Jiaomeizhen, right in between Zhangzhou city and Xiamen. regards, Elmer<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:34 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2013-10-26T10:54:38+00:00</updated> <published>2013-10-26T10:54:38+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86599#p86599</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86599#p86599"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86599#p86599"><![CDATA[ Were your people from Coanciu, Hokkien? (Assuming U want to use their form of Hokkien.)<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:54 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[elmer]]></name></author> <updated>2013-10-25T22:18:20+00:00</updated> <published>2013-10-25T22:18:20+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86598#p86598</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86598#p86598"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien names?]]></title> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86598#p86598"><![CDATA[ Hello,<br><br>I am finalizing my book on the history of (my) family Li(e). I am preparing a genealogical table. It is easy to write the names in pinyin, but my ancestors spoke Hokkien, so I would love to write their names in Hokkien. Can anybody help me with this list, or refer me to a online dictionary? The characters with the accents, is that just for pinyin, or does something like this also exists for Hokkien translation?<br><br>regards, thanks!<br>Elmer<br><br><br><br>谕 - Yù<br><br>君安 - Jūn'ān<br>君怀 – Jūnhuái<br>君博 - Jūnbó<br>君通 – Jūntōng<br>君迭 – Jūndié<br><br>汝谆 – Rǔzhūn<br>汝谨 – Rǔjǐn<br>汝诲 – Rǔhuì<br>汝谟 – Rǔmó<br>汝谦 – Rǔqiān<br>汝温 – Rǔwēn<br>汝良 – Rǔliáng<br>汝恭 – Rǔgōng<br>汝俭 – Rǔjiǎn<br>汝让 - Rǔràng<br>汝珪 – Rǔguī<br>汝璋 – Rǔzhāng<br>致敏 – Zhìmǐn<br>致政 – Zhìzhèng<br>致敦 – Zhìdūn<br>致曲 – Zhìqū<br>致鈂 – Zhìchén<br>致仰- Zhìyǎng<br>致俶 – Zhìchù<br>致猷 – Zhìyóu<br>致敬 – Zhìjìng<br><br>仲喧 – Zhòngxuān<br>仲昌 – Zhòngchāng<br>仲昭 – Zhòngzhāo<br>仲曜 – Zhòngyào<br>仲仁 – Zhòngrén<br>仲礼 – Zhònglǐ<br>仲祥 – Zhòngxiáng<br>仲义 – Zhòngyì<br>仲怡 – Zhòngyí<br>仲愉 – Zhòngyú<br>仲恂 – Zhòngxún<br>仲慰 – Zhòngwèi<br>仲恺 – Zhòngkǎi<br>仲文 – Zhòngwén<br>仲进 – Zhòngjìn<br>仲阳 - Zhòngyáng<br>仲雍 - Zhòngyōng<br>仲隆 - Zhònglóng<br>仲徽 – Zhònghuī<br>仲禧 – Zhòngxǐ<br>仲堹 – Zhòngzhòng<br>仲篪 - Zhòngchí<br><br>嵩蔢 – Sōngpó<br>嵩得 – Sōngde<br><br>新公 – Xīngōng<br><br>景贤 – Jǐngxián<br>景耀 - Jǐngyào<br>景修 – Jǐngxiū<br><br>子寿 - Zǐshòu<br>子山 - Zǐshān<br>子贵 – Zǐguì<br>子用 - Ziyòng<br>子玉 - Ziyù<br><br>宣义 - Xuānyì<br>希靖 – Xījìng<br>希泰 – Xītài<br><br>璲 – Suì<br>填 – Tián<br><br>子祥 – Zǐxiáng<br>子玄 – Zǐxuán<br><br>汝顺 – Rǔshùn<br>汝长 – Rǔzhǎng<br><br>崇德 - Chóngdé<br>崇福 – Chóngfú<br>崇礼 – Chónglǐ<br><br>光禄 – Guānglù<br>光爵 – Guāngjué<br>光成 – Guāngchéng<br>光荣 – Guāngróng<br><br>普旺 – Pǔwàng<br>普兴 – Pǔxìng<br>普显 – Pǔxiǎn<br>普渊 – Pǔyuān<br>普盛 – Pǔshèng<br>普掦 – Pǔtì<br>普睿 – Pǔruì<br>普安 - Pǔ'ān<br>普恭 – Pǔgōng<br><br>克仁 – Kèrén<br><br>永福 – Yǒngfú<br>永佑 – Yǒngyòu<br><br>逸轩 – Yìxuān<br>有本 – Yǒuběn<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3656">elmer</a> — Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:18 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> </feed>