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	<title>Chinese languages</title>
	<subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle>
	<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" />
	<updated>2007-07-08T03:35:04+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author>
	<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/3353</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[ong]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-08T03:35:04+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-08T03:35:04+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19303#p19303</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19303#p19303"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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Since experts didn't even sure what is the correct hanzi for this e .Why spending so much time talking about this hanzi 个.<br>If we want this hanzi to have a vowel of e,it must be old chinese not middle chinese .We can find 丽 ,兮  in this 部。<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=667">ong</a> — Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:35 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[jilang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-08T03:17:40+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-08T03:17:40+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19302#p19302</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19302#p19302"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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Thanks for explaning. I didn't really know much about the traditional and simplified character's history.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=2986">jilang</a> — Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:17 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[duaaagiii]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-07T17:55:56+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-07T17:55:56+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19301#p19301</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19301#p19301"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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Taiwan does not use the simplified character set. The story is like this: once upon a time (well before the PRC's simplified character set was created), there were three different ways to write what is now the Mandarin /ge4/: <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">箇</span>, <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span>, and <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">个</span>. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span> superseded the other two, which is why it is used as the official traditional character nowadays. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">个</span> was used as a shorthand alternative (and still is in many places), and so the PRC simplifiers decided to adopt this as the their official simplified character. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">箇</span> simply fell out of use.<br><br>Now, since <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span> is the standard in Taiwan, <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">个</span> and <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">箇</span> are considered variants. Some people interested in writing Min-nan in <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">漢字</span> decided to borrow the variant <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">个</span> character to write the Min-nan e5, leaving <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span> for the Min-nan ko3.<br><br>All three of these characters appear in <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">康熙字典</span> (the K'ang-hsi dictionary).<br><br>There have also been other proposals for <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">漢字</span> for e5, including <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span> itself (but this places the burden of distinguishing between e5 and ko3 on the reader), <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">仒</span>, <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">人</span> over <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">下</span>, <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">丌</span>, etc.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3133">duaaagiii</a> — Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:55 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[jilang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-07T06:14:31+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-07T06:14:31+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19300#p19300</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19300#p19300"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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It seems kind of confusing. To confirm: are they using both simplified and traditional?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=2986">jilang</a> — Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:14 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[duaaagiii]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-07T06:08:37+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-07T06:08:37+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19299#p19299</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19299#p19299"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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You can think of it that way. In addition, e5 (个) is a colloquial pronunciation, ko3 (個) is a literary pronunciation.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3133">duaaagiii</a> — Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:08 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[jilang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-07T01:36:26+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-07T01:36:26+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19294#p19294</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19294#p19294"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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<div class="codebox"><p>Code: </p><pre><code> PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject:Quote:I was just wondering why they used 个 instead of the traditional form. I think the entire document was written using traditional so why have they used the simplified? Also, for khun3 they use 睏 but why not 困?That is to differentiate between 个 e5, 個 ko3, and 的 e5. </code></pre></div>I still don't understand it (sorry). So are they using both the traditional and simplified of the same character for different words?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=2986">jilang</a> — Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:36 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[duaaagiii]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-07-03T00:31:59+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-07-03T00:31:59+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19282#p19282</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19282#p19282"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>I was just wondering why they used 个 instead of the traditional form. I think the entire document was written using traditional so why have they used the simplified? Also, for khun3 they use 睏 but why not 困?</div></blockquote>That is to differentiate between <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">个</span> e5, <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">個</span> ko3, and <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">的</span> e5.<br><br>The eye radical in <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">睏</span> was added to differentiate it from the other more prevalent meanings of <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">困</span><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3133">duaaagiii</a> — Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:31 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[ong]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-30T14:22:16+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-30T14:22:16+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19280#p19280</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19280#p19280"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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<a href="http://www.catholic.org.tw/friendship/school_data.htm" class="postlink">www.catholic.org.tw/friendship/school_data.htm</a><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=667">ong</a> — Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:22 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[jilang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-30T09:47:22+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-30T09:47:22+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19275#p19275</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19275#p19275"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19275#p19275"><![CDATA[
I was just wondering why they used 个 instead of the traditional form. I think the entire document was written using traditional so why have they used the simplified? Also, for khun3 they use 睏 but why not 困?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=2986">jilang</a> — Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:47 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[ong]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T21:09:18+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T21:09:18+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19139#p19139</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19139#p19139"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19139#p19139"><![CDATA[
I was the one who gave him the ordering address in this forum.I don't need to explain again how important it is to have Cambpell dict for all those hanzi.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=667">ong</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:09 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[SimL]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T16:02:00+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T16:02:00+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19136#p19136</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19136#p19136"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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duaaagiii: thanks - great resource, especially the English language stuff for me!<br><br>jilang: you're welcome! I don't know how I'll approach it yet. I've heard that there are some courses given for English speakers, by the missionary groups there (but that might be too basic for me, I don't know). The courses for Taiwanese who want to "recover their roots" will be unsuitable for me, as they will expect someone to be totally fluent in Mandarin and literate in hanzi. I'll only start looking into it when I start thinking seriously about doing it.<br><br>Sim.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=977">SimL</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:02 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[duaaagiii]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T16:07:24+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T15:53:20+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19135#p19135</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19135#p19135"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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A catalog containing books and websites about Hokkien or in Hokkien:<br><a href="http://lomaji.com/bok-lok/hian-si" class="postlink">http://lomaji.com/bok-lok/hian-si</a><br><br>The English section:<br><a href="http://lomaji.com/bok-lok/hian-si?lui=lui-piat&amp;tat=english" class="postlink">http://lomaji.com/bok-lok/hian-si?lui=l ... at=english</a><br><br>I have a textbook entitled <em class="text-italics">Harvard Taiwanese 101</em>, written by Prof. <span style="font-size:150%;line-height:116%">李勤岸</span> when he taught Taiwanese at Harvard. It is mainly in English except for a few Chinese sentences here and there, and it teaches TL romanization. It even comes with two audio CDs. <a href="http://203.64.42.21/iug/Ungian/POJ/siausit/2006/LKH/Harvard101.asp" class="postlink">http://203.64.42.21/iug/Ungian/POJ/siau ... ard101.asp</a><br><a href="http://www.king-an.com.tw" class="postlink">http://www.king-an.com.tw</a><br>contact number: 06-2585148<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3133">duaaagiii</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:53 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[jilang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T14:49:15+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T14:49:15+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19131#p19131</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19131#p19131"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.]]></title>

		
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Thank you for going to so much trouble as to search for old topics. <br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>&gt;&gt; are they essays/written pieces done by the people <br>&gt;&gt; that Douglas or Barcley met <br><br>No, there are no actual essays written in the dictionary. The "examples" I gave were just *definitions* of Hokkien words and phrases, so you kind of just stumble upon them. <br><br>I'll keep a lookout from now onwards and note where they</div></blockquote>I'd appreciate that. <br><br>How would you go about 'learning' Hokkien? I believe there aren't many formal courses available. Do you just mean speaking to more people and looking up words in dictionaries?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=2986">jilang</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:49 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[SimL]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T13:22:46+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T13:22:46+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19127#p19127</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19127#p19127"/>
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Jilang,<br><br>I had a search on the Forum, but can't find anything. It turned out that my memory was faulty, and probably Aurelio told me these things only in a personal mail (the mail is quite old - May 2004). <br><br>I don't think he'd mind if I post some of that information here, so I've just extracted the relevant parts of his mail. I hope this information is helpful to you. The one time I rang them up, Reverend Flanigan was back in the U.S., and the guy I got on the phone didn't speak any English, and my Mandarin being what it is, the whole conversation was rather awkward!<br><br>I get the impression he tends to go back to the U.S. in the Summer, so if you want to ring to make inquiries, you might want to have someone in the background who can speak Mandarin, to help out, just in case.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Sim.<br><br>--------------<br><br>Extract from Aurelio's mail:<br><br>... I’ve come across a Hokkien-English and an English-Hokkien dictionary with characters. Thought you might be interested. The characters are mandarinized (see the example I posted on unilang), i.e. it writes Mandarin ni3 你 instead of Hokkien lu2 汝 etc. But it is still useful for a lot of words. Missionary Romanization and BoPoMoFo are used. The price is NT$ 1,000 for Taiwanese-English and NT$ 800 for English-Amoy (about US$ 60 in total). The contact information is:<br><br>Reverend Edward J Flanigan<br>Maryknoll Language Service Center, Taichung Taiwan <br><br>... They have some other interesting books, too, including dialogues (books and tapes), talks on Chinese Culture and Aesop’s fables (!) Tongbut e kosu (NT$ 50). Their telephone number is 04-2375-8433.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=977">SimL</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:22 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[ong]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-06-08T12:35:39+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-06-08T12:35:39+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19122#p19122</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19122#p19122"/>
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Aurelio didn't post anything about W.Campbell book,so it isn't helpful.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=667">ong</a> — Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:35 pm</p><hr />
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