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	<title>Chinese languages</title>
	<subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle>
	<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" />
	<updated>2005-01-31T10:32:09+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author>
	<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/1626</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-31T10:32:09+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-31T10:32:09+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11049#p11049</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11049#p11049"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...]]></title>

		
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Hei everyone,<br><br>Finally I received the Lan Jiao song from my friend. Everyone and You are most welcome to email me at engwai84"yahoo.com (replace " with @) to ask for that song.<br><br>Cheers<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:32 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-24T13:23:06+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-24T13:23:06+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11048#p11048</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11048#p11048"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...]]></title>

		
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Tyin oh oh beh low hor.<br><br>The above song was sung by my grandma in the 50s when i was a little boy<br><br>I love the above song . When i was in the cradle the above nesary rhythm was sung over again and again like National anthem.<br><br>My grand ma was from amoy.  <br><br>Until today I still croon the above song occasionally. I do not know who is the original  writer or the singer of this song.<br><br>If music be the food of love play on. Shakespear.<br><br>I like Yee Tian, Yeh zi tian and tan lei minnan songs . Long Zhu A Sim Cheng<br>Ai Pian Kah A Yean.<br><br>Hope you can introduce some more hokkien songs to Singapore.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:23 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-20T13:15:55+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-20T13:15:55+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11047#p11047</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11047#p11047"/>
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Actually it's not the second verse but the continuation. You can find it here <a href="http://www.freewebs.com/tssllyt/etsge2.htm" class="postlink">http://www.freewebs.com/tssllyt/etsge2.htm</a> including many other folk rhymes/songs.<br><br>[%sig%]<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:15 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-20T02:32:58+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-20T02:32:58+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11046#p11046</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11046#p11046"/>
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Hong and Niuc<br><br>Many thanks for your info.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:32 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-19T15:07:49+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-19T15:07:49+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11045#p11045</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11045#p11045"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: tin o o, deh lok ho ...]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11045#p11045"><![CDATA[
Hi all<br><br>Thanks Casey, for your posting about the original version of 天乌乌 "thi*1-o`1-o`1",  which I already forgot until I read your posting. I heard it as a ryhme but not in a song. <br><br>The version posted by Aurelio was a popular folk song when I was a child. You also can read &amp; hear it here <a href="http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/lang/taiwanese/s6.htm" class="postlink">http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/lang/taiwanese/s6.htm</a> . Actually we have its second verse, I'll try to post it, may be tomorrow.<br><br>Aurelio, I agree that many Taiwanese Hokkien songs are related to drinking &amp; being drunk, which I don't prefer also, though I like many of the tunes. Actually this type ("bar songs") is only one of many types of songs in Hokkien, yet also the most prevalent one. Many of this type have "Japanese tune". As mentioned by Casey, there are better types such as traditional 望春风 "bang7-chun1-hong1" and one with advice/encouragement e.g. 欢喜着好 "hua*1-hi2 tio8-ho2". Btw I think your hokka-la should be "ho`7-ta1-la0" (let it dry), a famous Taiwanese phrase for kan1-pue1/gan1bei1 <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":)" title="Smile"><br><br>[%sig%]<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:07 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-18T04:49:23+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-18T04:49:23+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11044#p11044</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11044#p11044"/>
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a singer group  from Bukit Mertajam has sing a song like this in teochew<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:49 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-18T02:32:32+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-18T02:32:32+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11043#p11043</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11043#p11043"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11043#p11043"><![CDATA[
I just came across an interesting rhyme mentioned by Minnan dialect experts 周长楫&amp;周清海. It is in a mixture of Hokkien and Malay. To those who do not know Malay, I sincerely apologize. This is about to apply for a permit for street Chinese opera from the police:<br><br>Anjing besar tua7 kau2 hia*1(大狗兄)(tua7 kau2=police inspector)<br>Saya ciakap hO7 lu2 thia*1(给你听)<br>Minta surat cit8 tiu*1 ji7(一张字)(ji7=permit)<br>Besok dusa beh4 co3 hi3(要做戏)<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:32 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-17T19:27:41+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-17T19:27:41+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11042#p11042</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11042#p11042"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11042#p11042"><![CDATA[
You guys reminded me on a made-in-Penang Lanjiao song I came across on 2002. It was recorded probably just 1 or 2 years before that and it was a great hit among those Hokkien speaking Penang schoolboys. It was a song recorded by an English secondary school student (rumours point to St. Xaviers, Sim and Andrew will know) and swear words abound in the song.<br><br>I will try to dig it out again from my friends and find some way to upload it to internet to share with you. Since it is a song sung by Penang teenagers, you will be able to know the swear words we use and to listen to the accent the Penangite use. Sim maybe able to compare the difference between the elder generation accent and younger generation accent.<br><br>Anticipate it, and bear me a few days...<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:27 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-17T17:24:21+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-17T17:24:21+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11041#p11041</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11041#p11041"/>
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Hmmm! Come to think of it, "ai3 pia*3 cia4 e7 ia*5" also mentioned about getting drunk. Aurelio, you may be right after all.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:24 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-17T04:30:43+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-17T04:30:43+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11040#p11040</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11040#p11040"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11040#p11040"><![CDATA[
Interesting! I know very few Hokkien songs, but not many are about drinking (or worse). Examples: "ai3 pia*3 cia4 e7 ia*5", "bong7 chun1 hong1".<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:30 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-15T05:43:20+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-15T05:43:20+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11039#p11039</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11039#p11039"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11039#p11039"><![CDATA[
Hi Casey,<br><br>Good to see you back! <br><br>Thanks for the older version, this is very interesting! I had always wondered how the song became so popular (alright, it is very humorous, but something didn't seem to add up). A more traditional background to build on makes sense ...<br><br>At some point I have to put the rapped version in here, it's a riot <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=";-)" title="Wink"><br><br><br>Now that I have everybody together, on to the next question: How do you guys feel about Hokkien songs, that is, songs with Hokkien lyrics?<br><br>My wife, for example, cannot stand it when I but only hum or whistle a Hokkien tune. Claims they're all about drinking and worse. Can't really argue with that ... (after all, a lot of them ARE about drinking <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=";-)" title="Wink"> ) <br><br>Any other opinions out there? ta-ke lim cit puei, hokka-la (humming away) <br><img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=";-)" title="Wink"><br><br>Regards,<br>Aurelio<br><br>[%sig%]<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:43 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-14T12:14:46+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-14T12:14:46+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11038#p11038</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11038#p11038"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11038#p11038"><![CDATA[
Yes,Casey is right but she didn't know that aurelio's version was a new version  written in Taiwan.In a web page I gave chinese.pku.......=5408 .that is mentioned the writer's name.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:14 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-14T04:45:38+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-14T04:45:38+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11037#p11037</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11037#p11037"/>
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There are many varieties in this traditional rhyme, this is just one of them (I'm sorry that I can only post it in simplified Chinese characters):<br><br>天乌乌,要下雨,榉锄头,巡水路。<br>thi*1 O1 O1, beh4 loh8 hO7, giah8 ti1 thau5, sun5 cui2 lO7,<br><br>遇着海龙王,在娶某。<br>tu2 tio8 hai2 liOng5(leng5) Ong5, teh8(leh8) chua7 bO2,<br><br>龟担灯,寻(虫边,蟹)拍鼓,<br>ku1 ta*1 ting1, cim5 pha4 kO2,<br><br>田婴(蜻蜓)扛轿嫌艰苦,<br>chan5 yi*1 kng1 kio7 hiam5 kan1 khO2,<br><br>水鸡榉旗目吐吐。<br>cui2 kue1 giah8 ki5 bak8 thO2 thO2.<br><br>(or<br>水鸡吹吹(first 吹 is a verb, second one is a noun, 喇叭trumpet)大腹肚<br>cui2 kue1 pun5 che1 tua7 pak4 tO2.)<br><br>Irrigation of the field is always an important operation to the farmer. In the old days, when modern irrigation technology was not available, the farmer depended very much on raining. So when the sky was dark, knowing that it was going to rain, the farmer would bring out his 'changkol' (I think this is a Malay word for 锄头. There is no equivalent word in English because in the west, a spade is used.), the farmer would bring out his changkol to make sure that the water ways are properly cleared so that his field would be properly irrigated by the rain water.<br><br>Out of people's immagination, the wedding scene of of the Dragon King, the God who controlled raining, was vividly described in this children's rhyme.<br><br>The version quoted by Aurelio is a modified version to suit current taste, not the traditional ones.<br><br>P.S.:<br>I think it's not too late for me to wish everybody a Happy New Year. (Btwn solar and lunar new years, it's always new year time, right?)<br>It has been a long time since my last visit here. Glad to know that all old friends are well and still active, and also happy to see many more new friends joining the forum. Keep it up, guys!<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:45 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-13T21:03:13+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-13T21:03:13+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11036#p11036</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11036#p11036"/>
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		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11036#p11036"><![CDATA[
Spot on, I pronounce those words exactly like how you (Sim) describe. I shall learn church romanisation sooon... (my romanisation will still be my own version unless specifically stated <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":)" title="Smile"> )<br><br>About the thni o o stuff, I tried to search on the internet with no luck. Xiao bin1 bin1 is probably not the one who popularised the ryhme. I hope someone else can tell us the whole background story. Anyway, the child star I mentioned is xiao BIN1 BIN1 (not bing1), the BIN consists of 2 mu4 (wood) and 3 strokes? 彬。( not sure if you could read this).<br><br>Do we have any taiwanese readers in this forum who can refer to?<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:03 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2005-01-13T16:39:30+00:00</updated>

		<published>2005-01-13T16:39:30+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11035#p11035</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11035#p11035"/>
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Eng Wai,<br><br>"sky" is pronounced (as you probably know) with a nasalized "-i-". That is to say, it sounds different from "ti" (no "n" at all) and "tin" (a full "n"). <br><br>It's sort of half-way between them. It can be spelled "ti~" or "ti*". In the informal Malaysian spelling, you can sometimes see it spelled "tni". This shows that it is neither "ti" nor "tin", but somewhere in between.<br><br>And actually, you should spell the word "sky" with a "th". The "h" indicates that you aspirate it. "thi~" means "sky", but "ti~" means "sweet". [Just like "pi" means "to compare" whereas "phi" means "a crust". Or "ki" means "to point" whereas "khi" means "to ascend". ]<br><br>I encourage you to try to learn Church Romanization. It's not difficult, and is really a very well designed method of spelling Hokkien.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Sim.<br><br>[%sig%]<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:39 pm</p><hr />
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