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	<title>Chinese languages</title>
	<subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle>
	<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" />
	<updated>2009-08-11T02:59:06+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author>
	<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/1454</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[pretygirl]]></name></author>
		<updated>2009-08-11T02:59:06+00:00</updated>

		<published>2009-08-11T02:59:06+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24873#p24873</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24873#p24873"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24873#p24873"><![CDATA[
Thanks for the suggestion, I wish it had worked.<br><br><br><a href="http://sonneriegratuite.org/" class="postlink"><span style="color:#E1EBF2"><span style="text-decoration:underline">gratuit pour mobile sonnerie portable mp3</span></span></a><span style="color:#E1EBF2"> - Sonnerie portable MP3 est en effet un pouvoir de l'innovation technologique. Êtes-vous familier avec cette sonnerie portable?</span><a href="http://sonneriegratuite.org/" class="postlink"><span style="color:#E1EBF2"><span style="text-decoration:underline">gratuit pour mobile sonnerie portable mp3</span></span></a><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=6035">pretygirl</a> — Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:59 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[muraali]]></name></author>
		<updated>2009-07-17T10:18:55+00:00</updated>

		<published>2009-07-17T10:18:55+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24550#p24550</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24550#p24550"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24550#p24550"><![CDATA[
It is quite common in everybody's mind that native Bei Jing people do not speak standard Mandarin unless they speak slower and don't add er2 after every word.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=5938">muraali</a> — Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:18 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T18:48:31+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T18:48:31+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7133#p7133</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7133#p7133"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7133#p7133"><![CDATA[
BTW, most of my pages use Big5, traditional Chinese encoding...<br><br>Dyl.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:48 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T18:46:27+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T18:46:27+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7132#p7132</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7132#p7132"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7132#p7132"><![CDATA[
Eng Wai &gt; Ya, I don't know any Hakka at all. I just came across <br>Eng Wai &gt; a website saying there is no f word in Hakka before <br>Eng Wai &gt; I wrote that post. Weird.. Too wrong..<br><br><br><br>Really? The following has example of Hakka f- intial words and character pronunciations, just to satisfy your curiosity. Chiew Lee Yih says Hakka has no f- initial words in that link you gave elsewhere. He is clearly wrong, and not a reliable source of information.<br><br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/chinese/meixian.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/chinese/meixian.htm</a> <br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/hakga/zengong.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/hakga/zengong.htm</a> <br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/hd_f.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/hd_f.htm</a> <br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/howtplay.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/howtplay.htm</a> <br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/jhimiko.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/jhimiko.htm</a> <br><a href="http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/hagfa99b.htm" class="postlink">http://www.sungwh.freeserve.co.uk/sapienti/hagfa99b.htm</a> <br><br>My other site<br><a href="http://www.dylanwhs.ukgateway.net/dict/index.html" class="postlink">http://www.dylanwhs.ukgateway.net/dict/index.html</a> <br>You may also like some dialect information too,<br><a href="http://www.dylanwhs.ukgateway.net/download/doc.htm" class="postlink">http://www.dylanwhs.ukgateway.net/download/doc.htm</a> <br><br>Dyl.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:46 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T16:13:42+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T16:13:42+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7131#p7131</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7131#p7131"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7131#p7131"><![CDATA[
Ya, I don't know any Hakka at all. I just came across a website saying there is no f word in Hakka before I wrote that post. Weird.. Too wrong..<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:13 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T15:04:14+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T15:04:14+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7130#p7130</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7130#p7130"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7130#p7130"><![CDATA[
Eng Wai, it looks as though you don't know any Hakka. Hakka has plenty of f- initial words. <br><br>fui1 fly, <br>fui2 fat, <br>fa1 flower, <br>fap5 law, <br>fong2 room, <br>fiu2 float, <br>fai4 bad, <br>fet6 or, <br><br>etc.....<br><br>Dyl.<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:04 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T11:21:05+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T11:21:05+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7129#p7129</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7129#p7129"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7129#p7129"><![CDATA[
Let me add another thing. Chen Shui Bian is a Hakka, I think in Hakka F sound doesn't exist. So Chen Shui Bian pronounce huang hua instead of fang fa, more probably due to the influence of Hakka rather than influence of Hokkien.<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:21 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-16T10:50:52+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-16T10:50:52+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7128#p7128</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7128#p7128"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7128#p7128"><![CDATA[
Well language learner, <br><br>No no no, the different terminologies I used definitely mean different thing, because they are different things, we can't simply use one term to describe all. You think I have beaten around the bush too much, because you consider everything the same thing, which is not true.<br><br>Mandarin -- language group<br>               -- equivalent to min, cantonese, wu, english, french etc<br>Pu tong hua -- artificial standard mandarin<br>                    -- equivalent to BBC english<br>Bei Jing Hua -- a dialect of mandarin<br>                    -- equivalent to he nan hua, si chuan hua<br>Bei Jing qiang pu tong hua -- Pu tong hua spoken with influence of bei jing hua<br>                                           -- equivalent to Malaysian pu tong hua, Hong Kong pu tong hua, pu tong hua spoken by foreigners<br><br>And just for your information, London english is not standard english. It is sdimply the capital english.<br><br>So now you admit pu tong hua is spoken with an accent, a standardf accent. <br><br>And it is interesting to read your posts, though I might not agree with you. Don't think you are always correct, and don't treat people who disagree with you as not intereseted in learning the correct thing. Futhermore I was intending to talk about Malaysian accent mandarin, it doensn't mean that I am not intereseted in learning proper accent pu tong hua. Lastly if you desire to promote the prevalence of standard pu tong hua, first thing you need to equip yourself is the knowledge of pu tong hua language. You should be able to distinguish accent, dialect, language in order to give the others a clear account of Putong hua being standard mandarin. Just like a religion preacher, not only he should know the knowledge of his religion, he has to know the others so that he can brand the others' wrong, and his right.<br><br>It is very true about your observation of Hokkien accent mandarin. This is a normal situation among the old. Chen sui bian purposely speak hua instead of fa simply because he wants to show the taiwanese characteristic and stress the need of localisation. Among the middle age and young taiwanese, they won't say hua for fa if they are speaking mandarin, putong hua, or guo yu.<br><br>Another charecteristic of Malaysian accent mandarin is the sentence endings. We like to pronounce la, na, a with a definite tone and stress it as hard as we can, for fun or unconciously, due to influence of malay, hokkien and cantonese.<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:50 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-15T16:51:30+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-15T16:51:30+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7127#p7127</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7127#p7127"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7127#p7127"><![CDATA[
Hi Eng Wai,<br><br>It gets to the point where I have to ask if you would like to learn and obtain more knowledge about Mandarin or not ?<br>Because you have been 'beating the bush' and I am submerged in the different 'terminologies' you used and they means the same thing, they were just used at different time to mean the same thing, that's it !<br><br>I will try to comment one more time and hope you will get what I mean:<br><br>Eng Wai wrote:<br><br>&gt;so bei jing hua is not pu tong hua<br><br>Correct<br><br>&gt;bei jing qiang pu tong hua is not pu tong hua<br><br>-Beijing people pronounce individual words correctly (because INDIVIDUAL WORDS in Mandarin is based on Beijing pronunciation and RECORDED in Pinyin in the DICTIONARY)<br>-IF Beijing people eliminates MOST/ALL LOCAL WORDS (only understood by native Beijing) in their conversation/writing, then it is standard Mandarin !<br><br>&gt;then what is the relationship between pu tong hua and bei jing?<br><br>This is a million dollar question and I will not answer until you absorb all I said from previous emails ! THIS IS A BIG TOPIC to move from level 7 to level 8 which I am NOT in level 8, I tried but unsuccessful !<br><br>&gt;Now do you admit zheng gui pu tong hua is a pu tong hua with zheng gui qiang?? If it is, i make a point. If it is not, I wonder how you coud pronounce a language without any accent !!?<br><br>I already answered this question along the line, whatever answer is up to you, you may say levels 1-9 all have accents, it's fine with me, it is just a matter of (a) treating different levels as accent or (b) We treat levels 7, 8 &amp; 9 without accent ( It does not matter to me, it's just a personal opinion, do you know what I mean ?)<br>Example: (a) I may say English from London does not have accent (b) You may say English from London has London accent ( It does not matter to me AT ALL, Please do not go around this topic anymore ) (c) You may say English from NYC has accent<br><br>The idea is as follows: When people say 'no accent' (you say 'with accent'), it means it is generally agreed 'the way people speak in that area where their pronunciation is used as 'standard' and recorded in dictionary !<br><br>In English, London 'accent (this is your method)' is used to enter into the dictionary (British English)<br>In American English, Chicago(? or other cities) 'accent' is used to enter into Webster American dictionary<br>In Mandarin, Beijing 'accent (this is your method)' is used to enter into the dictionary (INDIVIDUAL WORDS' PRONUNCIATION)<br><br> <br>&gt;So if pu tong hua isnot spoken with bei jing accent, then why pu tong hua vocabs should be pronounced in bei jing accent???<br><br>Please see 'definition' from other topic; This definition is defined by the Chinese government for you information !<br>The ROC gov agreed to use Beijing pronunciation on INDIVIDUAL WORDS and ENTER IT INTO THE DICTIONARY even the sentence structure/usages are based on Bei Fang Hua, DO YOU GET IT ? I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THIS ANYMORE !<br><br>If the ROC gov picked Nanjing accent on individual words, then Mandarin would be based on Nanjing accent in the dictionary ! BUT IT IS NOT THE CASE !<br><br>I DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THE DEFINITION ANYMORE ! YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF<br><br>I already commented on the Malaysian/Singaporean Mandarin. Just one more:<br>-If they are Hokien origin, they may substitute Mandarin F with Hokien H such as Mandarin "Fujian" they will say "Hujian/Hokien" because lots of Hokien (Fujian) H is Mandarin F<br>-Listen to Southern Taiwanese (Chen Shui Bian), he would say "Hua3 yuan4" instead of Mandarin "Fa3 yuan4法院", "Hua3 lu:4" instead of "Fa3 lu:4 (law)"<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:51 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-15T04:50:16+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-15T04:50:16+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7126#p7126</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7126#p7126"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7126#p7126"><![CDATA[
Ok, so bei jing hua is not pu tong hua, bei jing qiang pu tong hua is not pu tong hua, then what is the relationship between pu tong hua and bei jing?<br><br>"When I said 'without accent' in Mandarin, I meant 'level 7' or 'zheng4 gui1 guo2 yu3' for me ! There are so many different accents in Mandarin we somehow have to narrow it down to several (levels 7, 8 &amp; 9) and use these 3 levels to teach Mandarin in schools !<br>You definitely don't want to teach levels 1 or 2 in schools, do you ?"<br><br>Don't deviate from the original point. To teach which level of pu tong hua is not my issue here. Now do you admit zheng gui pu tong hua is a pu tong hua with zheng gui qiang?? If it is, i make a point. If it is not, I wonder how you coud pronounce a language without any accent !!?<br><br>And "ALL individual words is pronounced according to Beijing accent". So if pu tong hua isnot spoken with bei jing accent, then why pu tong hua vocabs should be pronounced in bei jing accent???<br><br>Ok anyway, sorry if the discussions topic deviates from the forum topic. If you still want to comment on Malaysian accent mandarin, feel free to continue. If you want to talk about Mandarin in mandarin, please let us continue it in the other thread.<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:50 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-15T03:51:35+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-15T03:51:35+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7125#p7125</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7125#p7125"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7125#p7125"><![CDATA[
Hi Eng Wai,<br><br>&gt;Well it is interesting you mention the difference between bei jing people speaking bei jing hua and bei jing people peaking pu tong hua with bei jing qiang.<br><br>I just talked to my daughter's Mandarin teacher who is native Beijing speaker today. The teach told me, as exactly I knew before, that if they speak Beijing qiang, it would be very fast and people would have hard time understand them and it is not Mandarin, but they would try to accomodate non Beijing native and merge with non Beijing native so that non Beijing native could understand Beijing native's Mandarin.<br><br>&gt;You say you can speak languages without accents. I beg to differ. I guess what you mean is you can speak standard accent languages. Accent is always there, just whether it is standard accent or non-standard acent.<br><br>When I said 'without accent' in Mandarin, I meant 'level 7' or 'zheng4 gui1 guo2 yu3' for me ! There are so many different accents in Mandarin we somehow have to narrow it down to several (levels 7, 8 &amp; 9) and use these 3 levels to teach Mandarin in schools !<br>You definitely don't want to teach levels 1 or 2 in schools, do you ?<br><br>&gt;Bei Jing hua is a dialect of Mandarin language <br>It is true although Beijing residents may not agree !<br><br>&gt;Bei Jing accent Mandarin (grammar n vocab standardised) is the authorised official version of Mandarin, ie Pu Tong Hua.<br>Well, yes and no ! I would rephrase it this way, this is a tricky one: Mandarin is the collection of usages of Bei Fang Fang Yan including MOST Beijing hua (but not ALL beijing hua) with ALL individual words is pronounced according to Beijing accent.<br>Collection of usages of Bei Fang Fang Yan may include: Usages not used in Beijing but commonly used elsewhere; Usages used in Beijing but not used elsewhere; Usages used in North East but not used elsewhere<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:51 am</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-15T03:06:10+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-15T03:06:10+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7124#p7124</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7124#p7124"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7124#p7124"><![CDATA[
Well it is interesting you mention the difference between bei jing people speaking bei jing hua and bei jing people peaking pu tong hua with bei jing qiang.<br><br>Someone explained to me a few weeks ago about the variety of English in England. The Geordies (native newcastle, north east) could speak Geordie and Geordie accent English. The Geordie itself is considered as an English dialect and a Geordie accent English simply an accent. Londoners will have to make some effort to understand Geordie accent English but will struggle long time to understand Geordie.<br><br>Same thing applies to Bei Jing hua and bei jing accent Mandarin (pu tong hua). Bei Jing hua is a dialect of Mandarin language and Bei Jing accent Mandarin (grammar n vocab standardised) is the authorised official version of Mandarin, ie Pu Tong Hua.<br><br>You say you can speak languages without accents. I beg to differ. I guess what you mean is you can speak standard accent languages. Accent is always there, just whether it is standard accent or non-standard acent.<br><br>Eng Wai<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:06 am</p><hr />
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		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-14T16:00:43+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-14T16:00:43+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7123#p7123</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7123#p7123"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
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To make it clear:<br>&gt;It is very difficult for non native Beijing speakers or North Easterners to achieve level 8.<br>Should be phrased:<br>It is very difficult for non-native Beijing speakers AND non-North Easterners to achieve level 8. It is relatively easier for Northerners (Non native Beijing &amp; non native North Easterners) to achieve level 8 though !<br>i.e. Southerners: level 7 max; Northerners: level 8 achievable because standard Chinese is based on bei fang hua !<br><br>I hope I don't offend people but if it sounds like it, I offer my apology in advance !<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:00 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-14T15:10:44+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-14T15:10:44+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7122#p7122</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7122#p7122"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
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Hi Eng Wai,<br><br>Eng Wai wrote:<br>&gt;Don't really agree with you classifications<br>It is my 'personal' classification based on years of learning, listening, reading, asking and getting inputs from people from different regions. Wait till you figure out why Malaysian Madarin has accent, then get more contacts with people (learning, listening, reading, asking etc) then we may bridge our gap. It's your personal choice !<br><br>&gt;It is quite common in everybody's mind that native Bei Jing people do not speak standard Mandarin unless they speak slower and don't add er2 after every word.<br>Standard Mandarin excludes local Beijing words but still based on Beijing pronunciation on individual words. Some of Beijing people do not speak standard Mandarin because they speak Bei3 Jing1 Hua4, not Putonghua ! They speak with lots of er2 because they don't want to speak Mandarin to you, simple as that ! If they speak properly, their Mandarin (with high school education and you can't expect all native Beijing are univerisity graduates) is standard, clear, sound beautiful, individual words pronounced accurately, speed on INDIVIDUAL words (I did not mention speed in my previous email, this speed is 1 of the factors seperating levels because virtually it takes effort to move from level to level, and accent can be identified from 'speed').<br><br>&gt;I have listened to a couple of Bei Jing people speaking Bei Jing hua and compared it to the pu tong hua in broadcasted programmes in CCTV, the difference is not negligible.<br><br>BEIJINGHUA IS DIFFERENT FROM PUTONGHUA ! Please read my email carefully !<br><br>&gt;Instead I find people from He2 Nan3 speaking best pu tong hua. But I have to add that I meet only few He Nanese before so what I get might just a oversimplified stereoype.<br><br>There is no 'best pu tong hua' ! However, most broadcast anchors are from Liao2 Ning2 province, Chang2 Chun1 and native Beijing people. I will tell you next time why Liao2 Ning2 people &amp; Chang2 Chun1 can be the news anchors once you absorb completely what I mentioned in the email.<br><br>&gt;And do you know that the Mandarin broadcast in TV News is artificially made higher pitch so that people will make great effort to emulate them and eventually settle with standard lower pitch Mandarin which everyone can speak n understand?<br><br>News anchors are clear &amp; precise ! Whatelse do you want to say !? They are from the Central Broadcast University with special training, that's why they are level 9 ! You may classify Malaysian Mandarin as level 9 per your personal choice (no offense), it's up to you !<br><br>&gt;How do you describe Malaysian Mandarin accent?<br><br>Here is a brief list of Malaysian Mandarin:<br>- Pronunciation(This also applies to other Southern Chinese): Lack of sh, ch, zh. Lack of these is called "sharp sound" or jian1 yin1, basically levels 1, 2, 3, 4 &amp; 5 ! See it saves me time by using level numbering system otherwise I have to repeat writing every time !<br>- Pronunciation(This also applies to other Southern Chinese): When it should be s, c, z etc, they will make it sound like between s &amp; sh, c &amp; ch, z &amp; zh. The reason: They are not sure if it should be s or sh, c &amp; ch, z or zh, so they pick the 'mid point' <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":)" title="Smile">  Again, no offence !<br>- Sentence structure: Lack of er2 when it should be appropriately used as in standard Chinese such as 'hua1 er', 'men2 er2", "yang2 er2", "niao3 er2" etc ! You can learn these standard er2 from reading books that use proper er2 (but not from native Beijinghua that throws in er2 EVERY WHERE AND THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT PUTONGHUA)<br>- Speed on indivual words in a conversation (This is a big topic and it took me years of learning, listening, reading, asking to move from a lower level to a higher level, in fact level 7. It is very difficult for non native Beijing speakers or North Easterners to achieve level 8. I did try but unsuccessful)<br>- Mix of local Malay words &amp; dialect words unconsciously !<br>- Lack of raising tone in a sentence (I did not mention this): This is also a big topic and it takes time to move from lower levels to higher level so that it sounds more like Northern Mandarin or Zheng4 Gui1 Guo2 Yu3<br>- Perhaps other reasons that I am not aware of !<br><br>Remember: It takes years to pick up a language without accent through learning, listening, reading, asking etc !<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:10 pm</p><hr />
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		<author><name><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></name></author>
		<updated>2004-12-14T11:40:57+00:00</updated>

		<published>2004-12-14T11:40:57+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7121#p7121</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7121#p7121"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Malaysian Mandarin Accent]]></title>

		
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To Language Learner<br><br>Which 4 language can you speak fluently and which 3 can you speak without accent?<br><br>Don't really agree with you classifications. It is quite common in everybody's mind that native Bei Jing people do not speak standard Mandarin unless they speak slower and don't add er2 after every word. I have listened to a couple of Bei Jing people speaking Bei Jing hua and compared it to the pu tong hua in broadcasted programmes in CCTV, the difference is not negligible.<br><br>Instead I find people from He2 Nan3 speaking best pu tong hua. But I have to add that I meet only few He Nanese before so what I get might just a oversimplified stereoype.<br><br>And do you know that the Mandarin broadcast in TV News is artificially made higher pitch so that people will make great effort to emulate them and eventually settle with standard lower pitch Mandarin which everyone can speak n understand?<br><br>How do you describe Malaysian Mandarin accent?<br><br>Eng Wai<br><br>[%sig%]<p>Statistics: Posted by Guest — Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:40 am</p><hr />
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