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	<title>Chinese languages</title>
	<subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle>
	<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" />
	<updated>2011-08-23T14:25:14+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author>
	<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/topic/11647</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[guitaryf]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-23T14:25:14+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-23T14:25:14+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37334#p37334</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37334#p37334"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37334#p37334"><![CDATA[
Pretty post. I just found your site and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed browsing your posts.In any case I'll be <br><br>subscribing to your blog and I hope you post again soon<br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green">  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green">  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10217">guitaryf</a> — Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:25 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-21T20:20:22+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-21T20:20:22+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37307#p37307</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37307#p37307"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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Poems in Teochew and Canto? Cool. <br><br>There's a 金甌會舘 in Los Ángeles. For the longest time, this threw me for a loop. Then I realized 金甌 was Ca Mau. Along with the 台湾會舘 in Los Ángeles, it's one of the few 唐人 會舘s I know based on a homeland outside of China. If I may be so bold as to read into it, I'd say that's a sign that 唐人 somehow considered themselves to still be in China when they went to 台湾 and 金甌. This is why TWnese Hokkiens say their 籍貫 is Taiwan, but Luzon Hokkiens, etc., say their 籍貫 is Hokkian.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:20 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-21T20:20:48+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-21T20:17:15+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37305#p37305</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37305#p37305"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:17 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-15T21:30:04+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-15T21:30:04+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37237#p37237</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37237#p37237"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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Chinese people in Vietnam is not only concentrated in Cholon, we spread throughout the whole southern Vietnam. Several famous places of Chinese concentrated in Vietnam are Cholon (which is known for the last, oldest, most populous stronghold for Chinese people in Vietnam), Bien Hoa, Bac Lieu, Ca mao, Soc trang. <br><br>We even have our own poems about Bac Lieu and Ca mao but only available in Teochew and Cantonese. If you speak to people Cholon, maybe they can show you some.<br><br>You're right, most Chinese people speak Cantonese and never learn Mandarin. Just like me, if I am still in Vietnam, I would have no idea what is Mandarin language. However, due to China and Taiwan's influence, now alot of Chinese families in Cholon urged the young generation to learn Mandarin. Not sure about those Chinese Schools, but my cousin went to a private Chinese schools to learn Mandarin and they using Cantonese as instructive language.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:30 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-11T19:13:59+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-11T19:13:59+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37207#p37207</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37207#p37207"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37207#p37207"><![CDATA[
It seems like every other time I go out and about and make conversation here, there'll be a Canto speaker in the group of people I'm talking to. Seems like U couldn't scatter a handful of green beans here w/o hitting a Cantophone. And this is Q3/Q10 (第三、十郡), well outside of Chợlớn 堤岸. <br><br>Today I spoke to an older gentleman whose parents fled Kwongtung during the Chinese Civil War. They came from Fayeun 花県, but they weren't Hakka. I had some trouble understanding the man. His pronunciation and his entire aura seemed very Vietnamized, more so than most of the Canto speakers I've met here. He didn't use the Cantonese pronoun 你 lei even once. Instead, he referred to me as 細佬 sailou. Very interesting, I thought. I had to kind of strain to understand him, esp. with the background noise, but fortunately I was able to "get" almost every sentence. I guess "studying abroad" in Canton is paying off.  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":P" title="Razz">  In the past I might've had a lot of trouble understanding these Canto spkrs in Saigon. Unlike KL Cantonese, Saigon Cantonese ranges far from the media standard.<br><br>Today's gentleman referred to MONEY as lui 鐳, pronounced exactly as it would be in Amoy-type Hoklo: rounded back /u/ in the diphthong (not fronted), in a high, level tone. The etymon was active for making compounds. At one pt he said 車鐳 che-lui. In the context, I'm pretty sure he meant BUS FARE. Chin 錢 didn't seem to figure in his vocabulary at all. <br><br>Another interesting observation. The Cantonese spkrs usually launch into Cantonese w/me as soon as they hear me say I'm "người Tàu", even though I always say I'm from Taiwan or Indonesia, countries where Cantonese is bahasa non grata. And while Chinese schools here teach Mandarin, I think there are lots of people who speak Cantonese but never learned Mandarin.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:13 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-09T00:50:31+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-09T00:50:31+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37169#p37169</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37169#p37169"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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<blockquote class="uncited"><div><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed"></div></blockquote>I'm curious. Why are U anti-Viet? <br><br>Are U also against Anglicized Chinese people, or are U proud to be one? Perhaps this forum is not for U either and U're not gonna join us here?<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.</div></blockquote>Who "taught" you this? What do they mean by a language being based on an education system? If anything, both dialects seem to be pretty corroded in relation to the proto-language. I say this b/c some of the dialects in middle Vietnam seem to preserve a lot more distinctions than either N or S.</div></blockquote><br>Make no mistakes.<br><br>Vietnamese Chinese people is people who still speak Chinese languages in Vietnam and still follow Chinese tradition and culture. <br>Vietnamised Chinese people is people who come from Chinese families but Cant speak Chinese at all and they proudly declare that they are Vietnamese people and denied that they have nothing to do with Chinese people and culture and they hate China. Furthermore, they usually follow the Vietnamese people to mock , make fun of us and our languages. in Vietnam, We used to call them Bon Mat Goc mean "People who forget about their own ancestor's tradition, root and culture".<br><br>I am anti-Viet because the way they been treating us is disgusting. They said they respect and friendly and always looking for close friendship with us but they always called us Nguoi Tau (even though they know it is offensive), they make fun of our language and tradition. They exterminated in Hanoi and Haiphong and masscred us Cho Lon many times before and they forcibly suppressed us many times in the past and if something happen between China and Vietnam, they blame everything on us. Like it was our faults that they lost in 1979 during Sino-Vietnam war.<br><br>I am only anti-Viet and anti-Vietnamised Chinese. I am not anti-Vietnamese Chinese or any anglicised Chinese. <br><br>About the language, we have our own books in Vietnam as well. and that what they said in the books.<br><br>furthermore, The so-called Modern Vietnamese language or Vietnamese language can put somewhat as a term of "a language never existed". Modern Vietnamese language is a language using a mixture of pronunciation and meaning from Han Viet and Chu Nom with a grammar modified by French.<br><br>If you want to know about Han Viet and Chu Nom, Visit theses site and you will know that both Han Viet and Chu Nom were written in Characters:<br><br><a href="http://hanviet.org/" class="postlink">http://hanviet.org/</a><br><br>Han Viet was a language for Vietnam's scholars and government officials language just like we have qoon wa in China before <br><br><a href="http://nomfoundation.org/vnpf_new/index.php?IDcat=52" class="postlink">http://nomfoundation.org/vnpf_new/index.php?IDcat=52</a> or<br><a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=227657444504&amp;v=wall" class="postlink">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 504&amp;v=wall</a><br><br>Chu nom is a language which was invented by indigenous Vietnamese people but was based Han writing system but was modified and they used pronunciation for more into pure Viet's natural speaking language.  Chu Nom is usually used by Vietnamese peasants and common people in the old Vietnam and used to be called by Ha Nhan Ngon Ngu (下人言語) in Han Viet or those scholars<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:50 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-08T16:00:22+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-08T16:00:22+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37162#p37162</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37162#p37162"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37162#p37162"><![CDATA[
<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed"></div></blockquote>I'm curious. Why are U anti-Viet? <br><br>Are U also against Anglicized Chinese people, or are U proud to be one? Perhaps this forum is not for U either and U're not gonna join us here?<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.</div></blockquote>Who "taught" you this? What do they mean by a language being based on an education system? If anything, both dialects seem to be pretty corroded in relation to the proto-language. I say this b/c some of the dialects in middle Vietnam seem to preserve a lot more distinctions than either N or S.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:00 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-08T00:36:34+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-08T00:36:34+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37155#p37155</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37155#p37155"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37155#p37155"><![CDATA[
<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Here's a cool-looking forum on Cantonese:<br><br><a href="http://tiengquangdong.com/index.phtml" class="postlink">http://tiengquangdong.com/index.phtml</a>?/<br><br>(in VNmese)<br><br>U gotta love the forum tagline: 敢想敢做.</div></blockquote>Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:36 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-08T00:28:50+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-08T00:28:50+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37154#p37154</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37154#p37154"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37154#p37154"><![CDATA[
<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Hail Hokkien Learner, well met once again. I've heard that 唐人 in Annam don't like to be called người Tàu. Why is that, exactly? Is it just b/c it sounds like "Boat People"? Or is there a deeper reason? <br><br>Personally, I will always identify as người Tàu, although I'll have to respect other people's wish not to be called that. For me, there's no other word in any language that captures my ethnic identity <em class="text-italics">clean</em> the way "người Tàu" does. <br><br>I don't like the word "người Hoa" and its equivalents b/c it seems to me that this is a word that was propagated first by the ROC and later the PRC as well - modern states with nationalist / ethno-chauvinist agendas. The word may've existed for a long time, but it seems that hardly anybody ever used it before ROC times. I will stand corrected if anyone can prove otherwise. Till then, should anybody call me người Hoa, I will correct them and say I am người Tàu instead.<br><br>I believe there's a grain of truth in what U say, that Vietnamese - Southern Vietnamese esp. - takes a lot of words from Cantonese. Technically, though, from what I know of the history, VNmese took a lot of words from ancient languages that may be deeply related to Cantonese (across time) - not from Cantonese itself. If U think about it, there are a lot of VNmese words, Sino- and otherwise, that actually sound more like their Teochew equivalents than their Cantonese equivalents. This is b/c modern VNmese, Cantonese, and Teochew didn't exist back then - they each evolved out of what was spoken back then. <br><br>There are some words that clearly come straight out of Cantonese, such as oành thanh = WONTONS and xì dầu = SOY SAUCE.<br><br>The linguistic history of what are today the Red River valley and the West River valley and that whole area in between (mostly Kwongsai 廣西), plus Hainam 海南, is tremendously interesting - much wilder than U would think just looking at modern-day Pearl Delta Cantonese.<br><br>The S VNmese pronunciation of "Viet" is not quite the same as "Country Cantonese" - the final is velar, and the vowel is a diphthong. Also, not all speakers have a /j/ initial. Std Cantonese with its rounded vowel is even farther off. But S VNmese /v/ in both of its incarnations definitely seems to be a local innovation. Who's to say, maybe contact with people speaking Teochew, Hokkien, Cantonese, Khmer or Cham brought it about. <br><br>It's cool that U've still got Vietnam and Saigon on your mind even though U've moved to Oz. If U want to become fluent in Hokkien, I'd suggest U immerse in a Hokkien-speaking environment when U have the time. Let us know if U need suggestions for where.</div></blockquote><br>First of all, Let look at the meaning of Nguoi Tau.<br><br>Nguoi mean people or person. No problem with that.<br>About Tau, if you put in simple term. Yes it mean boat but if you put it into the exact meaning of Tau is. Look at below and I will explain:<br><br>Tau is Short term for Ba Tau or Do Ba Tau (another way and term to call Vietnamese Chinese in offensively meaning in Vietnam).<br>But Ba is short term for Ba Xao and Ba Xao in Vietnamese language mean liar.<br><br>Then we put all that, we Nguoi Tau could mean "the lying boat people" if you put it into the true meaning. The reason for this calling is because Vietnamese dont trust China so that term they are using to alert their local Viet fellow about our presence. Would you want people look at you and say "Look, a bunch of liars"?<br><br>About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:28 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-07T22:47:05+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-07T22:47:05+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37153#p37153</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37153#p37153"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37153#p37153"><![CDATA[
Here's a cool-looking forum on Cantonese:<br><br><a href="http://tiengquangdong.com/index.phtml" class="postlink">http://tiengquangdong.com/index.phtml</a>?/<br><br>(in VNmese)<br><br>U gotta love the forum tagline: 敢想敢做.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:47 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-07T23:02:25+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-07T22:42:43+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37152#p37152</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37152#p37152"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
		<content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37152#p37152"><![CDATA[
Hail Hokkien Learner, well met once again. I've heard that 唐人 in Annam don't like to be called người Tàu. Why is that, exactly? Is it just b/c it sounds like "Boat People"? Or is there a deeper reason? <br><br>Personally, I will always identify as người Tàu, although I'll have to respect other people's wish not to be called that. For me, there's no other word in any language that captures my ethnic identity <em class="text-italics">clean</em> the way "người Tàu" does. <br><br>I don't like the word "người Hoa" and its equivalents b/c it seems to me that this is a word that was propagated first by the ROC and later the PRC as well - modern states with nationalist / ethno-chauvinist agendas. The word may've existed for a long time, but it seems that hardly anybody ever used it before ROC times. I will stand corrected if anyone can prove otherwise. Till then, should anybody call me người Hoa, I will correct them and say I am người Tàu instead.<br><br>I believe there's a grain of truth in what U say, that Vietnamese - Southern Vietnamese esp. - takes a lot of words from Cantonese. Technically, though, from what I know of the history, VNmese took a lot of words from ancient languages that may be deeply related to Cantonese (across time) - not from Cantonese itself. If U think about it, there are a lot of VNmese words, Sino- and otherwise, that actually sound more like their Teochew equivalents than their Cantonese equivalents. This is b/c modern VNmese, Cantonese, and Teochew didn't exist back then - they each evolved out of what was spoken back then. <br><br>There are some words that clearly come straight out of Cantonese, such as oành thanh = WONTONS and xì dầu = SOY SAUCE.<br><br>The linguistic history of what are today the Red River valley and the West River valley and that whole area in between (mostly Kwongsai 廣西), plus Hainam 海南, is tremendously interesting - much wilder than U would think just looking at modern-day Pearl Delta Cantonese.<br><br>The S VNmese pronunciation of "Viet" is not quite the same as "Country Cantonese" - the final is velar, and the vowel is a diphthong. Also, not all speakers have a /j/ initial. Std Cantonese with its rounded vowel is even farther off. But S VNmese /v/ in both of its incarnations definitely seems to be a local innovation. Who's to say, maybe contact with people speaking Teochew, Hokkien, Cantonese, Khmer or Cham brought it about. <br><br>It's cool that U've still got Vietnam and Saigon on your mind even though U've moved to Oz. If U want to become fluent in Hokkien, I'd suggest U immerse in a Hokkien-speaking environment when U have the time. Let us know if U need suggestions for where.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:42 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-07T22:11:30+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-07T22:11:30+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37151#p37151</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37151#p37151"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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Found myself in a conversation with a local Cantonese speaker in the alley where I live the other day. This guy was in his 30s. Born, raised, lives and works in Cholon. Father is ethnic Canto, mother is Kinh. The word he used for Kinh was 安南人 Onlaamyan. (rest on the Canto forum)<br><br>He talked very fast and I could only understand 60 to 80% of what he was saying, but I barely noticed b/c I've been talking to people in mostly VNmese lately and only understanding 20-30%.  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing">  I couldn't put a finger on it - his Cantonese was in some way different from "middle class" Canton, HK or KL Cantonese, but then so is the Cantonese spoken by a lot of blue-collar types everywhere, and I'd be hard pressed to understand more than 60-80% of their lingo too.<br><br>He didn't understand me when I referred to Cantonese as 白話 Paak-wa. I asked him how he learned Cantonese. He told me that basically all the Chinese in Cholon speak Cantonese. (Except I think he's referring to what we would call sinkheh on this forum.) Some areas are so heavily Cantonese-speaking that even pure Kinh speak it.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:11 pm</p><hr />
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		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-07T12:58:29+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-07T12:58:29+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37144#p37144</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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I believe by the 3000 Kanji books you are referring to the Nhất Thiên Tự 一千字, Nhị Thiên Tự二千字, Tam Thiên Tự 三千字, and Ngũ Thiên Tự 五千字, these are not merely for the purpose of learning Characters, but also for the purpose of learning Nôm. These books were originally long rhymes that Vietnamese children would memorise for their basic education, but they have made modern versions of them with the Mandarin Pinyin and the Quốc Ngữ (Vietnamese Romanisation) transcription for each character. Children would learn all the concepts in pairs, so the two words would always be connected in their minds, e.g. tam 三 means ba. <br>.[/quote]<br><br>I am sorry but I have to correct you on some of your info, Ah Bin.<br>三 is Tam in HanViet.<br>and Ba is pronunciation for 3 in Chu nom and I will show you how to write chu Nom now.<br><br>If you write the word 巴 and 三 into one characters. Then you will have a Chu nom Character for 3. Remember 巴 must be on left and the bottom stroke of 巴 must be make longer to to the right so you can place 三 on top of that stroke.<br><br><br><br><br>That's how chu nom is  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:58 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[hokkien_learner]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-08-07T13:14:01+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-08-07T12:45:54+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37143#p37143</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>1. This post is close kin to a series of posts over in the Hokkien forum entitled Hoklo in 5. Sometimes, people will talk to me in Cantonese or, less commonly, Mandarin when they hear or guess that I'm one of the "People of the Boats" (nguoi tau). They always speak what seems to me to be native Cantonese, although in some cases their native language is not Canto. This is also my experience in the diaspora.</div></blockquote>As a person, who was born in Cho Lon, I reckon everyone not to call us as Nguoi tau unless you want to pick a fight us <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":x" title="Mad"> . We always prefered us as Nguoi Hoa 華人 or to be more specific my family will prefer as Nguoi Tieu or 潮人 while other people prefer them as Nguoi Quang or 廣人.<br><br>Did you know that Saigon has always been under heavy influence of Cantonese and because of that influence, alot of Southern Vietnamese pronunciation is taken from Cantonese pronunciation. For example: Vietnam is the correct pronunciation in Vietnamese but in south they pronunciate as dzietnam because the cantonese pronunciate as yuet for Viet.<br><br>Yes there are alot of Cantonese and Teochew books and classes for people to learn in Saigon but unfortunately, I listened to Vietnamese speak Teochew and I cant get it at all but after listen for them to repeating 3 or 4 times then I get it  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"> <br><br>Most of Chinese in Vietnam can speak Chinese language even though they never go to Chinese language school. Like me, I learn to write characters at the age of childhood at home <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"> <br><br>Vietnamese is similar to Cantonese? Yes. Because Modern Vietnamese is Sino-Vietnamese Language if you want to put to exact term. 60% of Vietnamese words are from Cantonese. <br>Vietnam has 2 different traditional langauges. 1 is Han Viet (漢越語) and another one is Chu Nom but Chu nom is written in characters as well but Chu Nom also is considered a descendant of Han Language as well. For Example, <br>this 看 character is pronunciate as khan in Han Viet but now Vietnamese pronunciate as Thay which is from Chu nom very similar to Cantonese<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10105">hokkien_learner</a> — Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:45 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-07-14T14:57:04+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-07-14T14:57:04+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=36877#p36877</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field]]></title>

		
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Interesting!<br><br>I think maybe working from Canton Cantonese to Vietnamese is kind of ge2 xue1 sao1 yang3, trying to scratch your ankle w/o taking your boots off. And this is what some scholars do, or, worse, work with Vietnamese and Mandarin. Taking a good look at all the languages and dialects west and southwest of Canton, Sino- and non-, then looking at Vietnamese in that context, would probably be an eye-opener.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:57 pm</p><hr />
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