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	<title>Chinese languages</title>
	<subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle>
	<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" />
	<updated>2013-12-10T23:41:37+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author>
	<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/forum/9</id>

		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[malik378]]></name></author>
		<updated>2013-12-10T23:41:37+00:00</updated>

		<published>2013-12-10T23:41:37+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86731#p86731</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=86731#p86731"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: Nong ho!]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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I am interested in obtaining a Shanghai dialect New Testament, are there any available or are any posted online? I would also be interested in Ningbo, Shaoxing or Hangzhou dialect New Testaments.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=18363">malik378</a> — Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:41 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[myhealth]]></name></author>
		<updated>2012-03-13T09:21:14+00:00</updated>

		<published>2012-03-13T09:21:14+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84330#p84330</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84330#p84330"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: Shanghainese?]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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Shanghainese or the Shanghai language is a dialect of Wu Chinese spoken in the city of Shanghai and the surrounding region. It is classified as part of the Sino-Tibetan family of languages. Shanghainese, like other Wu dialects, is largely not mutually intelligible with other Chinese varieties such as Mandarin. The term "Shanghainese" in English sometimes refers to all Wu Chinese dialects, though it is only partially intelligible with some other subbranches of the Wu language group.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=14683">myhealth</a> — Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:21 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[arleneangle]]></name></author>
		<updated>2012-03-01T08:02:05+00:00</updated>

		<published>2012-03-01T08:02:05+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84261#p84261</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84261#p84261"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: Wondering if anyone knows wenzhounese?]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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Yes,I Know a lot of wenzhounese.My home town is in zhejiang province,china.Do you want to more about chinese?Maybe I can tell you something you need.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=14476">arleneangle</a> — Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:02 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[monalisa22]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-12-01T11:23:50+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-12-01T11:23:50+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=83951#p83951</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=83951#p83951"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: Wondering if anyone knows wenzhounese?]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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nice information.....thanks.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=13707">monalisa22</a> — Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Spirmy25]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-09-30T22:44:43+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-09-30T22:44:43+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39293#p39293</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39293#p39293"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: I'd like some help with Shanghainese slang-please help]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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Someone told me "se pei" is a Shanghainese slang for "tough female".<br><br>Can someone please help me out with Shanghainese (Wu) slang?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10498">Spirmy25</a> — Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:44 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Liandella]]></name></author>
		<updated>2011-09-30T20:07:16+00:00</updated>

		<published>2011-09-30T20:07:16+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39286#p39286</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=39286#p39286"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: The books of the Wu Spoken-language Writing-system]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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<a href="http://www.schanghai.com/deutscherclub-" class="postlink">http://www.schanghai.com/deutscherclub-</a>The German Club offers regular meetings for all German speaking expats in Shanghai and share experiences, offer help for the first steps and organize interesting trips and events in and around Shanghai.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=10461">Liandella</a> — Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:07 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[tadpole]]></name></author>
		<updated>2008-10-29T16:30:53+00:00</updated>

		<published>2008-10-29T16:30:53+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=21779#p21779</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=21779#p21779"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Can Wu language be described as stereotonic?]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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Hi,<br><br>I apologize for all the math jargon I am going to throw in here. But I hope everyone does have some basic familiarity with linear algebra.<br><br>For tonal languages like Vietnamese, Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, the situation is pretty simple: you learn the tones of separate words, and you put them together, and then you have the tone values of a sentence, except for some possible tone-sandhi adjustments. I would call these languages mono-tonic (one tone per word/syllable).<br><br>For Min-Nan language group, this is no longer true. Each word/syllable has two possible tonal values. I call them "running tone" (动态调)and "standing tone" (静态调), this is also the jargon used by some other people. For a language like Min-Nan, I would call it a "stereo-tonic" language.<br><br>I have looked at Min-Dong (Foochow, Fuzhou) two-syllable compounds, and it seems to me that the complicated sandhi patterns can be explained as result of (a) a historical stereo-tonic tonal system, plus (b) secondary tone sandhi adjustments. So, I am pretty confident that even Min-Dong can be classified as a stereo-tonic language. To borrow a math analogy, if we view the two-syllable combinations as a matrix, a stereo-tonic language would be a diagonal-dominant matrix, meaning that the rest of the elements can be explained from the diagonal combinations, plus minor adjustments due to tone sandhi. In the case of Min-Nan, all off-diagonal elements can be explained directly with the diagonal elements, with almost no additional off-diagonal tone sandhi adjustments. To use a even more technical jargon, the two-syllable tonal matrix is factorizable, in the sense of a tensor product. So Min-Nan is totally tensor-factorizable, while Min-Dong is quasi-factorizable.<br><br>Now let us come to Wu. I know in a language like Shanghainese, the tonal contour often applies to a whole set of words, much like pitch accent. But I also know that this tendency towards pitch-accent style is something recent, that is, Shanghainese tones (or tonal phrases, or tonal phrase elements) have been evolving quite a bit in the last 70 years or so. Other Wu language seems to have a little bit of phrase-wise tonal patterns as well, but probably not to the same degree of modern Shanghainese.<br><br>Let us forget about Shanghainese and talk about Wu languages in general. Do you guys think that Wu languages could be explained as stereo-tonic languages as well? What I mean is:<br><br>(1) Let us forget about one-syllable citation tones first, and focus on two-syllable, three-syllable or high-syllable terms. Can the tonal values in multi-syllable Wu terms be explained as (a) a basic steretone-pair tone values, plus (b) adjustment/conditioning of the tonal values due to the pitch (level or contour) of surrounding syllables?<br><br>(2) Can the one-syllable citation tones be explained as logical follow-ups of the stereotone tone-pair values?<br><br>I know to answer these questions is quite an intellectual challenge. But I feel frustrated that no one has ever given a systematic explanation of the nature of tonal features of Wu language at the multisyllable, tonal-phrase level. People just throw in some tone tables, tons of ad-hoc sandhi rules, but no one has ever given a logical rationale, or a logical interpretation, to the multisyllble tone patterns in Wu.<br><br>In the case of Min-Nan, you guys are welcome to visit my explanations at:<br><a href="http://www.tadpolenese.com/theory/running-standing-or-sandhied-default" class="postlink">http://www.tadpolenese.com/theory/runni ... ed-default</a><br>Though I know the case of Wu is quite different from Min-Nan. Different, but I think in a distant past, the cases of Min-Nan and Wu must be related. I am just trying to figure out a possible path of evolution. The simplicity of Min-Nan (it being factorizable, it being a true stereotonic language) would suggest to me that the tonal-phrase evolution was propated from the South to the North, but I could be wrong: there could be a pitch-accented system in the pre-Sinitic era in the Northern Wu area, which coalesced into a simple stereotone system in the South.<br><br>regards,<br><br>Little Tadpole<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=4011">tadpole</a> — Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:30 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Huang]]></name></author>
		<updated>2008-03-03T20:12:06+00:00</updated>

		<published>2008-03-03T20:12:06+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20959#p20959</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20959#p20959"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Shanghai New Testament]]></title>

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I am interested in obtaining a Shanghai dialect New Testament, are there any available or are any posted online? I would also be interested in Ningbo, Shaoxing or Hangzhou dialect New Testaments.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3705">Huang</a> — Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:12 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Bao Pu]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-24T21:39:32+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-24T21:39:32+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20033#p20033</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20033#p20033"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Thanks alot Ransek,<br>Aside from the vowel then, it closely resembles Old Chinese (古漢語) tək</div></blockquote>Well, sort of  <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":?" title="Confused"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=446">Bao Pu</a> — Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:39 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Bao Pu]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-24T21:37:39+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-24T21:37:39+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20032#p20032</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20032#p20032"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

					<category term="Wu language forum" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=9" label="Wu language forum"/>
		
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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>It has a glottal stop [-ʔ]. In Wu the Middle Chinese 入聲 with final consonant [-p/-k/-t] have merged into the glottal stop. <br><br>In many romanization scheme this consonant is represented by "-k" or "-h". <br><br>In case of 德, the proper romanization should be "Tek" or "Teh".<br><br>In Mandarin the pronunciation should be "Te", and in Cantonese it should be "Tak". In these two languages there are no voiced plosives, so they can use "d" to represent "t", while "t" corresponds to "/t'/'. In Wu the three-way contrast of Middle Chinese stops and affricates(/t, t', d/) is persevered.</div></blockquote>Thanks alot Ransek,<br>Aside from the vowel then, it closely resembles Old Chinese (古漢語) tək<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=446">Bao Pu</a> — Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:37 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[ransek]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-21T21:49:54+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-21T21:49:54+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20026#p20026</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20026#p20026"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

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<blockquote class="uncited"><div><blockquote class="uncited"><div>It's pronounced almost the same as "de" in Mandarin, just shorter and more "explosive".</div></blockquote><br>Thanks Tom,<br><br>So, it doesn't have a final consonant like Cantonese, Min or Hakka?</div></blockquote>It has a glottal stop [-ʔ]. In Wu the Middle Chinese 入聲 with final consonant [-p/-k/-t] have merged into the glottal stop. <br><br>In many romanization scheme this consonant is represented by "-k" or "-h". <br><br>In case of 德, the proper romanization should be "Tek" or "Teh".<br><br>In Mandarin the pronunciation should be "Te", and in Cantonese it should be "Tak". In these two languages there are no voiced plosives, so they can use "d" to represent "t", while "t" corresponds to "/t'/'. In Wu the three-way contrast of Middle Chinese stops and affricates(/t, t', d/) is persevered.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3606">ransek</a> — Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:49 pm</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Bao Pu]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-10T11:41:20+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-10T11:41:20+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19919#p19919</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19919#p19919"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>It's pronounced almost the same as "de" in Mandarin, just shorter and more "explosive".</div></blockquote><br>Thanks Tom,<br><br>So, it doesn't have a final consonant like Cantonese, Min or Hakka?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=446">Bao Pu</a> — Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:41 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Tom Higgins]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-10T09:26:44+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-10T09:26:44+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19897#p19897</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19897#p19897"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • Re: Nong ho!]]></title>

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<blockquote class="uncited"><div>Nong ho!<br><br>shanghainin lela sa-difaun? <br><br>Ru zoh nong sinni kualoh!</div></blockquote>上海人嘞嘞啥地方 (上海人在哪里)Where are the Shanghainese?<br>Ru is probably "wu" (吾) 我 I。<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3533">Tom Higgins</a> — Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:26 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Tom Higgins]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-10T09:22:28+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-10T09:22:28+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19896#p19896</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19896#p19896"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

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It's a "regionistic" Wu.<br><br>Wu is an umbrella term for one of the seven major dialects of China, which is spoken in many cities/provinces to the east of China.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3533">Tom Higgins</a> — Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:22 am</p><hr />
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	</entry>
		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[Tom Higgins]]></name></author>
		<updated>2007-12-10T09:19:25+00:00</updated>

		<published>2007-12-10T09:19:25+00:00</published>
		<id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19895#p19895</id>
		<link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19895#p19895"/>
		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Wu language forum • ]]></title>

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It's pronounced almost the same as "de" in Mandarin, just shorter and more "explosive".<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=3533">Tom Higgins</a> — Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:19 am</p><hr />
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