<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xml:lang="en-gb"> <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/forum/6" /> <title>Chinese languages</title> <subtitle>Chinese languages</subtitle> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/index.php" /> <updated>2017-09-22T13:14:27+00:00</updated> <author><name><![CDATA[Chinese languages]]></name></author> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/app.php/feed/forum/6</id> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[amhoanna]]></name></author> <updated>2017-09-22T13:14:27+00:00</updated> <published>2017-09-22T13:14:27+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88657#p88657</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88657#p88657"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Tone Neutralization in Penang Hokkien (academic paper)]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88657#p88657"><![CDATA[ Chán! <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif" width="15" height="15" alt="8)" title="Cool"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7909">amhoanna</a> — Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:14 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2017-04-18T23:10:53+00:00</updated> <published>2017-04-18T23:10:53+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88096#p88096</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88096#p88096"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Teochiu should be part of 'Hokkien' language]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=88096#p88096"><![CDATA[ delete<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:10 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[raoul2]]></name></author> <updated>2016-12-01T23:45:15+00:00</updated> <published>2016-12-01T23:45:15+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87567#p87567</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87567#p87567"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • intro]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87567#p87567"><![CDATA[ I am studying minnan with a book entitled 'southern hokkien'.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=23873">raoul2</a> — Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:45 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[raoul2]]></name></author> <updated>2016-11-30T22:42:07+00:00</updated> <published>2016-11-30T22:42:07+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87565#p87565</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87565#p87565"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • introducing myself]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87565#p87565"><![CDATA[ hello!<br>I am french. I study minnan with a book entitled "southern hokkien".<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=23873">raoul2</a> — Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:42 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[AndrewAndrew]]></name></author> <updated>2016-07-17T06:07:38+00:00</updated> <published>2016-07-17T06:07:38+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87539#p87539</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87539#p87539"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Tone Neutralization in Penang Hokkien (academic paper)]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87539#p87539"><![CDATA[ <a href="http://www.academia.edu/5132554/Complete_and_not-so-complete_tonal_neutralization_in_Penang_Hokkien" class="postlink">http://www.academia.edu/5132554/Complet ... ng_Hokkien</a><br><br>Confirms two of our hypotheses: <br>- Sandhi form of 3rd tone is a high level tone.<br>- 2nd tone in young Penangites can materialise as a high rising tone.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7712">AndrewAndrew</a> — Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:07 am</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-03-03T14:05:14+00:00</updated> <published>2016-03-03T14:05:14+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87472#p87472</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87472#p87472"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87472#p87472"><![CDATA[ Regarding 'sik fung', it it certainly Malaysian Cantonese. <br><br>Wonder how it got into the vocabulary and what is the exact origin.<br><br>In China, Cantonese use 'lui yau' or 'dau fung'.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:05 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-03-03T14:00:19+00:00</updated> <published>2016-03-03T14:00:19+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87471#p87471</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87471#p87471"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87471#p87471"><![CDATA[ You guys might be interested to watch the 'Axian special trip to Jinmen 金門'.<br><br>It seems that some of the locals there also use 'pasar' and 'lui'. <br><br>The explanation from the local guide (not me!) was that these words are imported from Nanyang (SEA) Chinese and are Malay words.<br><br>This is the famous 'Axian' show where he visits many food stalls in Malaysia.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:00 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-18T18:54:58+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-18T18:54:58+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87465#p87465</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87465#p87465"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87465#p87465"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>... Okay.....<br><br>Xng, since you are back...<br><br>I must admit, I was quite disappointed when you said 食風 in the sense of travelling is Sintic. 吃西北風 itself evidently proves that the concept of wind-eating originally registered on a negative connotation. Much like how Bees are symbols of diligence; lotus are symbols of purity.. Wind-eating indirectly depicts how someone is so poor that he can only eat "wind".<br><br>Anyway, I'm sure you know that...</div></blockquote><br>1. You have a point there. Come to think of it, I've never heard of any HK people say 'sik fung'. <br><br><br>2. This is another one of those difficult origin like 'duit' .Whether it originated from Malay or a native Hokkien word.<br><br><br>Thanks for pointing out to me. I'll report back after I've done my research.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:54 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-18T18:57:24+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-18T18:11:12+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87464#p87464</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87464#p87464"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87464#p87464"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Xng wrote <br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>食風 is NOT borrowed from Malay, rather the malay borrowed from chinese. cantonese also use 'sik fung'.<br><br><a href="http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/152/?full=true" class="postlink">http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictio ... ?full=true</a></div></blockquote>Care to click on the little link to the full entry? Or did you just hope we would miss it?<br><br><a href="http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/words/15681/" class="postlink">http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictio ... rds/15681/</a><br><br>Little writing underneath says:<br>[2] calque from Malay "Makan Angin"<br><br>Another one of xng's greatest hits! Ah, you do make or lives so interesting!</div></blockquote>Dear obnoxious Ahbin<br><br>1. That Cantonese forum can be edited by anyone. You could have put it there yourself.<br><br>I myself have found some errors in that online dictionary in the past although the majority are correct. <br><br>2. However, I do agree that this requires further research but you don't have to be so arrogant and rude to other members unless you want the same treatment from me.<br><br>Formal Indonesia Malay word is liburan and not makan angin. By the way, Malay language originated from Sumatra so why is makan angin not spoken there? <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"> <br><br>I will ask my Indonesian Sumatra friends later as to the informal Malay word for 'go for vacation'.<br><br>See below for a more valid argument.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:11 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-18T18:40:01+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-18T18:02:57+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87463#p87463</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87463#p87463"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87463#p87463"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Looks like you're back from cutting and pasting to the China History Forum......<br><br>xng wrote (dec 23 2010):<br><blockquote class="uncited"><div> The northerners create 'Lang' character because that's how it sounds to them with a 人農 sound but that's not the original character. At that time in middle chinese, the sound has changed to 'Yin'. The original character is a simple 人, that's how 'man' was written 5000 years ago. </div></blockquote>You made this up, just admit it for goodness sake. You make up stories about things to prove your point, and never ever admit that you are wrong about anything. <br><blockquote class="uncited"><div>Even malaysian cantonese uses 'lui' but if you were to go to china guangdong province, NONE of the natives there know what 'lui' is.</div></blockquote>Rubbish, they do, they just have a different meaning for it. Copper coin. I never said it didn't come from Malay. So you are lying if you imply that I did.</div></blockquote>Dear obnoxious AhBin<br><br>1. You really don't know the difference between Hokkien colloquail and literary sound, do you? Colloquail is the sound closer to Old Chinese. Colloquail is 'lang' and literary is 'lin'. Lin is closer to Middle Chinese 'Yin'.<br><br>Why would ancient people create another new character for 人 when there is already a very ancient character for it. Just because it has changed sound, doesn't mean the original character is not 人 .<br><br>Or do you think that all Chinese characters in Hokkien have only one sound? <br><br>2. Really? I went there many times and nobody there knows what is 'lui'. Only those who has Malaysian friends know what is 'lui'. Eg. Alan Tam, the singer only say 'lui' when he is in Malaysia but when he goes back to HK, he say 'chin'.<br><br>3. Copper coin is called 'Thung Chin' 銅錢, Thung means copper. Chin means money. Just the 'lui' part doesn't mean copper coin, the most important character is still 'thung' 銅 . <img class="smilies" src="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif" width="15" height="15" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green"><p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:02 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-13T15:09:11+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-13T15:09:11+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87460#p87460</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87460#p87460"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Imprisoned word in Hokkien]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87460#p87460"><![CDATA[ I've heard of two versions of imprisoned in Hokkien. <br><br>關 Kuainn and Kuinn.<br><br>Which is Quanzhou and which is Zhangzhou?<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:09 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-13T15:05:12+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-13T15:05:12+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87459#p87459</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87459#p87459"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: "Sampai" in Penang]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87459#p87459"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div> However, none of them, including Taiwanese dict, have 牽掛 as tshian1-kua3. This came as a "shock" for me, as I always assume that is the "standard" pronunciation. May be that is Taiwanese influence upon my variant, my mom also says that tshian1-kua3 sounds more "correct" than khan1-kua3. Personally I feel that the latter sounds like doing divination.</div></blockquote>Taiwanese actors/actresses don't speak pure Hokkien just like Malaysian Chinese don't speak pure Hokkien.<br><br>The correct pronunciation spoken in Taiwanese songs by Hokkien experts are 'Khien Kua'.<br>Chien Kua is Mandarin pronunciation.<br><br>牽 has several pronunciation depending on usage.<br><br>牽手 is Khan Chiu (colloquial pronunciation)<br>牽牛 is Khan Gu <br>牽掛 is Khien Kua (literary pronunciation)<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:05 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-13T15:06:02+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-13T14:59:33+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87458#p87458</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87458#p87458"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: "Sampai" in Penang]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87458#p87458"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>I also hear <em class="text-italics">sim-tsi</em> all the time, including Korean. Taiwanese programmes may not always say the right thing, as things may change in Taiwan. Like 牽掛 - I dunno why it's pronounced <em class="text-italics">tshian-kua</em>...... Hm......</div></blockquote><br>see below<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:59 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-13T14:56:32+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-13T14:56:32+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87457#p87457</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87457#p87457"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87457#p87457"><![CDATA[ The other thing I want to point out is the Malay word 'mana'.<br><br>Mana uh... In Malay 'mana ada'.<br><br>Actually, the correct word is 'Na uh...' 哪有<br><br>Remove the 'ma' from mana.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:56 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> <entry> <author><name><![CDATA[xng]]></name></author> <updated>2016-02-18T18:48:36+00:00</updated> <published>2016-02-13T14:54:11+00:00</published> <id>http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87456#p87456</id> <link href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87456#p87456"/> <title type="html"><![CDATA[Hokkien (Minnan) language • Re: Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words]]></title> <category term="Hokkien (Minnan) language" scheme="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=6" label="Hokkien (Minnan) language"/> <content type="html" xml:base="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=87456#p87456"><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4ycZo81ek&list=PLmm4BcCm313qGOqcc_56CjyUMAYJ47xoN&index=12" class="postlink">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4ycZo ... N&index=12</a><br><br>"Lui" used in China at 1:53!</div></blockquote>Good job! You've proven that 'lui' is actually a Hokkien word spoken in Chiangchiu, China.<br>You don't need to be obnoxious to prove your point.<br><br>The origin of some words can be quite challenging and controversial.<br><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duit" class="postlink">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duit</a><br><br>Quote: Duit is also the Malay and the informal Indonesian equivalent of the English term "money". This happened because of centuries of Dutch rule in Indonesia.<br><br>So there are three theories now.<br><br>1. The Chiangchiu Hokkien in China imported the word 'lui' from the dutch<br><br>2. 'Lui' is actually a native Chinese word. Then why is it that Northerners, Cantonese, Quanzhou and Taiwanese people don't use the word? Only Chiangchiu Hokkien use the word?<br><br>3. The Chiangchiu Hokkien in China imported the word 'lui' from Nanyang relatives (Penang or Medan)<br><br>Which is the true origin?<br><br>Definitely, the 'lui' was not imported from Malay word because the Malays imported the word from dutch.<br>see dutch proverbs below<br><br>Putting a duit in the bag (Een duit in het zakje doen) - to contribute something<br>He is a duit-thief (Hij is een duitendief) - he is very greedy<br>He has much shit, but little duit (Hij heeft veel kak, maar weinig duiten) - he is a boaster<br>To be courageous like a three-duit haddock (Moed hebben als een schelvis van drie duiten) - to be cowardly<br>To give someone of four duit back (Iemand van vier duiten weerom geven) - to tell someone the truth<br><br>4. Please find me a Quanzhou video that also speak 'lui'. Forget about Taiwanese video because I watched it all the time and I've never heard of 'lui'.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="http://chineselanguage.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041">xng</a> — Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:54 pm</p><hr /> ]]></content> </entry> </feed>